Mental fitness and supporting a mate can save a life — Guest starring Gotcha4Life Founder Gus Worland

Andy
In these trying times, we’re all feeling the pressure of the pandemic starting to wear on us all, especially with so many trade businesses being stood down. So today we’ve been joined by a very special guest, Australian radio host and TV personality, Gus Warland. He’s a driving force behind Australia’s leading mental fitness charity, Gotcha4Life.

Ange
We felt this was a really important message for the trade community to talk with Gus about the Gotcha4Life charity. Gus, thank you so much for joining us.

Gus
Ange, Absolutely, my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Andy
Hey buddy. How are you doing?

Ange
Gus, for those listeners who aren’t familiar with your charity, can you give us a bit of a rundown about what Gotcha4Life is all about?

Gus
Yeah, absolutely. I started Gotcha4Life off the back of a TV program I did on the ABC called Man Up, and Man Up really was well best described as challenging masculinity in this country and why we lose so many beautiful blokes every day to suicide. And that for me was my own journey on why a friend of mine, he was 10 years older than me. Uh, he was my father figure, cuz my dad had left the family home when I was quite young. And I just adored this guy. I really, really did. He married my cousin and he was just always in and around our family and I just looked up to him so much and not only that, in year 10, I went and worked with him. He was a PET Trinity. Then he changed jobs and he worked at Shiba. As soon as I could work at Shiba, I started working under him, and his sales team. So the whole thing was me following him around a little bit, I suppose, and I learned so much from him. And he was the guy that ticked every box. He had status at work, he had status outside of work. He was good looking, with a wife, three children. Didn’t seem to have a care in the world. Didn’t seem to have a worry in the world, but it just shows that suicide just does not discriminate. And as a family, we didn’t talk about it for years. And then one day I went, I was on the grill team with Maddie Johns and MJ, the three of us were talking about. Different content for our listeners. We’d been on for nearly eight years at the time, and we’re wondering whether or not our listener group could actually handle more than just footy and jokes and clowning around, and could we go a little bit deeper with them? So I decided one day to talk about my friend. We have 32 lines at Triple M. They all lit up straight away and we knew that we cottoned onto something. So I did the Man Up program and I said, you know what? I’ve got such a wonderful soapbox. I’m gonna stand on this and talk and bark from that as loud as I can around masculinity, around what are the rules now to be a man and a woman compared to what it was when those rules were set. So it just became this passion piece for me, and now I’ve left Breakfast Radio, and I just do some stuff on the weekends for a little bit of balance because as you guys would know, the, the field of of mental fitness is what I like to call it, is extremely emotional, and I need to have that balance in my life of just having a bit of fun with sport. But this is where I’m dedicating my life now and we just got some government funding, we’re up to 7 million raised and all that money goes to anyone that works in suicide prevention. I think it’s all about educating every man and woman about what it takes to be a man and a woman today. And that just takes time and effort and uh, that’s what I’m dedicating myself to now.

Andy
Mate. That is absolutely awesome. You know, you’re an absolute superstar and I know everyone that knows you, loves you as well. You know, one of the reasons we wanted to get you on here today to talk about Gotcha4Life is, you know, you’ve been through a situation with someone very close to you with suicide and, and only actually in the last four weeks, a, a beautiful mate of mine, one of my best mates, and we’ve had so many incredible journeys together. Took his life only four weeks ago. Like what you said, a beautiful family, an incredible trade business. He was a tradie, a nice house, a super good looking bloke, super funny . Everyone loved him. Like, I just can’t believe it got to this. And I just thought that he had it all and we were giving him so much support coming up to it. But to finish it that way, I really struggle to understand it, to be honest. And, and it’s really, really tough, you know?

Ange
And he had to fathom what was even going through his mind to think that that was a solution. That’s crazy.

Andy
You know, we’re talking to a guy that I was spending six days a week with.

Ange
Yeah.

Andy
You know, six days a week. Our boys played soccer together and, and everything just seemed okay. Mm-hmm. , but there, it just wasn’t obviously and Absolutely, absolutely devastating.

Gus
Yeah. And I’m so sorry for your loss and I know exactly how you feel. I still feel roar about my mate and he is well over a decade ago, and I continually spend time shouting at. Hopefully in the sky cuz I don’t look down when I talk to him. I’m, I, I’m feeling he’s up there. I’m not a, I’m not a deeply religious man, but I, I feel if you do a half decent job down here, there’s probably something else. And I certainly hope there is for him. And he’s missed out on nine grandchildren now. You know, all the, all the sons-in-law and daughter-in-law. There’s just so much that he’s missed out on. And I just scream at him sometimes that he made such a permanent decision based on what would’ve been a very temporary situation and not to have not for him to man up and speak up, but to do what he’s told all his life to be man up and shut up and just get on with it. Mm-hmm. , that’s that, that’s the bit that really hurts me because yeah, we stood 1200 of us. He was president of Palm Beach Surf Club and we had a reception back there after the funeral. 1200 people having a few drinks, just all looking at each other. Just not knowing why, that was the thing. And did you have any idea? And everyone asked the same question and no one had an inkling. And that’s what goes back to what I said at the start. You know, it doesn’t discriminate. He had everything but for him, he didn’t have whatever he had in his own self to be able to talk to someone about it, for people to go, let me be your help, cuz he was everyone else’s help. And in the end he made that decision. And it’s so sad and, and I never quite get over it. And I suppose that’s why I’m so passionate now because I’ve got his daughter on my board. I just want to take his legacy with me and sort of let people learn from it. And if you show some vulnerability just like you did, it’ll allow other people to realize you can still be blokey, you can still be a man, you can still have all those traditional male things. But if you show some vulnerability, surely that’s even more manly than it was in the past when we looked upon that as a weakness. So we’ve gotta change that narrative, and the only way we’ll do it is through podcasts like yours, through what we’re doing at Gotcha4Life. We have to change the narrative and young kids get it. I don’t see anyone now shaking hands. They’re all hugging each other. So that’s a starting point, but we’ve just gotta keep going. Yes. The awareness is there, we just need the action behind it.

Andy
Yeah, exactly mate. I’m probably more loving now than I have been, but you know, I’ve always loved to cuddle with the guys that I’m with and it goes a little bit far when I occasionally do a little bum cap, but, but mate, that’s what it’s about. And I, all my messages these days are text messages and at the end, love your mate. Love your mate. Love your mate. And goes to show that you just don’t know what’s going on in other people’s heads and, and what’s happening. And, and a few people have said to me, oh, I can’t believe it, and why? And get really angry. And there’s times I’m shouting, shouting at the sky as well. Completely angry. But I know one thing, he absolutely adored his wife and absolutely adored his kids. And there’s no, there’s number one thing he didn’t do. He didn’t wanna hurt them in any single way. And this is where it goes a bit further, doesn’t it? With mental fitness.

Gus
I’ve spoken to well over a thousand people that have tried to take their own life, and fortunately they’re still with us. Mm-hmm. and bar none. Every single one of them said that they didn’t want to die, but they wanted to be out of pain. Yeah. Mm. They’re in so much pain and they’re so dark and their focus is so narrow and so dark that they get to the point where they actually think they’re doing everyone around them a favor. Yeah. To not be around. That’s where they get their head, head supposed to be. Yeah. There was a guy in Queensland that I spoke to, and he’s become a good mate. He tried to take his own life with drugs and alcohol, and fortunately we found him pumped, his stomach and so forth. Mm-hmm. . I went up to Queensland and saw him, had his wife and three children in the waiting room outside.

Andy
Wow.

Gus
And I walked in there and of course there’s that really awkward silence. You don’t quite know what to say. And then eventually you’d crack a few jokes as, as Azzie blokes do . And then eventually I said to him, you know why brother? And he actually said, well, I’m a shit husband. I’m a shit father. I’m not providing, I’m no good. Oh wow. And if I died, A, my wife, she’s so beautiful. She’ll definitely find love and she deserves that. The kids will have a stepfather that’s much better than I am. And the narrative went on and on like this. Now we’re three years down the track with this situation. Yeah. And he now in the mind that he’s, and the mindset he’s in. He’s like, who is that person?

Andy
Wow.

Ange
Wow.

Gus
What, what is that person talking about? Of course, that’s not the right thing to think. Mm-hmm. , but that’s where he was at the time. And that’s what Gotcha4Life is all about, is not so much at the crisis point, but giving men and women the emotional muscle to have a conversation. So you never get to that point where you’re so narrow minded and thinking in a way that’s obviously so unclear. So it’s all about building the emotional muscle, getting yourself mentally fit, to be able to get through to a point where you never get that scenario because we make really bad decisions when we’re thinking about things and not actually voicing them.

Andy
A hundred percent.

Ange
So you’ve touched a little bit about Gotcha4Life, and you’ve mentioned that you actually have a series of programs aimed at helping people before they start to feel suicidal. Can you tell us actually a bit about these programs?

Gus
Yeah, absolutely. So I partner up with anyone that works in the preventable space. There’s way too much money and focus on the crisis point. And don’t get me wrong, the lifelines of this world, they need amazing more support than they’re getting even if they get a lot. Yeah. I went up to the BAU Gala lifeline through shooting of Man Up, and I’ve been up there since, and I’ve done some various MCing and hosting of their events and so forth, so I know what beautiful work that they do, but I don’t wanna be, at that point, I want to be at the preventable space. I want to be educating men and women and everyone in between of all different genders and all different ages. To actually be mentally fit. Change the topic from mental health to mental fitness. And the only way that I can do that is by looking at all the programs that are out there and go, you know what, who needs support? Who needs financial support? Who needs some management support? Who needs some advice on how to run their business a little bit better? Whatever it might be. I use my network of people to go in and help those. And what I’ve done now is, like I said, given away over $6 million to those program partners, I call them, who are out there, who I’m trying to build, who I’m trying to make them stronger. I’m trying to make them get through their own covid situation and then help me get the suicide rate down to zero. So our main programs, the people we give the most amount of money to are programs called Tomorrow Man and Tomorrow Woman. And it really is challenging. , what it takes to be a man and a woman today because we’re trying to live up to a stereotype that was based around a whole set of rules that were set so long ago.

Ange
True.

Andy
Exactly.

Gus
For instance, the rules on how to be a man and a woman were set without social media. Mm. They were set without mobile phones. So you think how big a part they play in our lives, how big a part they play in our kids’ lives at the moment. So why don’t we go, you know what we need to put a rule in for that stuff. So it’s not about chucking all the old rules out and saying it’s all rubbish. It’s about finding that extra five or 10% and just tweaking what it takes to be a man and a woman that little bit better. And that’s what we are trying to do, build mental fitness. So you never worry alone. I believe that suicide’s a death of loneliness. You get so lonely that you get to the point where you go, you know, I’m gonna check out. We can’t have people getting down that track that long. We need to nip it in the bud by getting mentally fitter at the start. So you ask for help and you realize it’s actually brave to do that.

Andy
Yeah, mate. A hundred percent. You nailed it there. I just wanna ask you, because of the current Covid situation and a lot of trade business owners out there that are feeling really high levels of stress, um, the uncertainty and even possible depression, some of these guys out there, you know, it’s a tough time in the trade industry right now. Well, I mean, what are your thoughts on how to deal with this kind of thing for tradies out there now?

Gus
Yeah, keep it as simple as possible. And you said possible depression, there is depression. Mm-hmm. , a hundred percent. There’d be anxiety, depression. As soon as you take away hope, and as soon as you take away the thought of, I know where I’m traveling. That’s when blokes in particular really, really struggle. We don’t mind plotting along to a certain degree, but you give us uncertainty of the future. That’s when we start to have some real worries. And then you’ve got, obviously youngsters that are coming up and doing their apprenticeship. You wanna look after them, you need to pay them, and all the stuff that goes with that. And big jobs, are you gonna be paid on time and all that stuff. And all the stresses and tradies have a general role especially the old school ones are very old school in how they think. So what I’d say to those guys is that the stats don’t lie. The number one way to die as an Australian male in that tradie age of like 15 and 44 is suicide. And the number one category within that are tradies are construction workers. I had a big chat yesterday with the leadership of one of the biggest construction companies in the world and they are struggling at the moment to know around the uncertainties of big builds and looking after their people and making sure they’re being good employees and so forth. It’s exactly the same from the big fellas all the way down to the little ones. We have to start looking after our people better, and you can’t assume that people are going, okay, you need to actually stop and have a conversation of gravity with every person that you think could be affected. And I’m telling you, they’re everyone. Even that person that walks around with their chest puffed out and making out that everything’s okay. I’m telling you they are struggling somewhere in their life. So they need to feel safe enough. And it’s all about safety, especially with blokes. If we feel safe enough to talk about our feelings, we’ll talk about them when the cows come home. So we need to build a safe enough environment. Don’t just go. You okay? Yeah, man. I’m sweet. Yeah, you’re sweet. Yeah. And then you break and you go, well, what about the footy tonight? So that conversation’s done. We need to have a slightly deeper conversation than that hundred percent. We don’t have to be deep and meaningful all the time. We don’t need to burst into tears every five minutes either. Yeah. But we need to have that nice balance of where you’re actually properly checking in with everyone that’s in your life, and that’s your partner, your children, your apprentices. Anyone that works for you. Leadership and being the boss is a lonely place. It really is. So make sure that you are checking in on yourself and then checking in on your charges as well. Don’t take anything for granted because as you know, your guy ticked all the boxes. My guy ticked all the boxes. It doesn’t discriminate. It’s better to have an awkward conversation now than actually be sitting there doing a eulogy at the funeral, and I know that’s harsh but that’s the truth. The numbers don’t lie.

Andy
And I, I think you just hit the nail on the head on many, many occasions in, but if you are feeling not in a good space, and we all go through, you know, people say to me, oh Andy, you’re always on such a high and everything’s so perfect for you. Well, no, it’s not. You know, I have my down days as well. And, and I think the thing is, it’s so easy, and even really with myself and what just happened with my, my mate, people will go, are you okay? Well, my first reaction is, yeah, mate. Totally, I’m fine. Don’t worry. Yeah, I’m all good. But deep down I am not. And deep down, I wasn’t. I am now, but deep down I wasn’t. But my reaction was just always yes, because that’s, I’ve always been that guy. Pick yourself off the ground, dust yourself up. Let’s go. Let’s look to the future. Let’s go. But there were elements there that I was like, oh my God, I’m not that good. And even Andrew, you don’t even know that. But I, I just didn’t speak about it and I, oh, mate, you know, and you hear what you are saying, you know.

Gus
Can I say something to you, Andy? Because we are similar sort of characters, right? Yeah. We want to be positive. Yeah. We want to be upbeat. We want people around us to feel like we’ve got ourselves under control. Yes. So the only way that we can truly change what we’re trying to do in Australia, and then hopefully the world is by lead, by vulnerability.

Andy
Yeah.

Gus
Right. It doesn’t mean you have to drag everyone down when they say how you’re traveling, but, so you know what? Today is not such a bad day. But gee, I’ve been struggling. Yeah. I’ve gotta tell you, there’s nothing wrong with telling someone. You don’t wanna necessarily tell someone who just knows you briefly. Yeah. But if someone who really knows you and you’ve spent time with them actually asks you how you are, show them that, show them the dignity to actually answer the question with honesty and vulnerability. And that takes a little bit of training.

Andy
It does.

Gus
It’s like trying to be mentally fit takes getting in the grind. Like your physical fitness. You can’t run a marathon after a week with your personal trainer. It’s gonna take lots of time for you to go. Here’s a missed opportunity. I should have been honest when that bloke asked me in the local IGA, if I was Okay. . Because he is probably asking you quite generally. Yeah. So the people who love you, be honest with them, mate. Your friends, what he did is affecting you, will affect you forever. Yeah. And the people that know you and love you will totally understand if you tell them the truth and the fact you got Ange there, that totally understands it. Don’t ever, ever hide from her your true feelings.

Ange
You were really honest about that though.

Andy
I was, but I skirted around it. You know. Yeah, I think deep down I could have been more, I could have opened up a lot more, maybe for a lot of, perhaps. A lot of people reached out and I really appreciated them reaching out. And I had mates sitting there with a few beers and a glass of red and he asked me three times and I was a bit like, dude, stop asking me this question. But deep down, . I knew I wasn’t okay, but I said to him, yeah, mate, I’m all good. I’m all good. I’m all good, mate. I’m all good. It’s good, it’s good. But I wasn’t and that’s the thing that Gus is saying and that’s what everyone listening out there, you can’t be like that anymore. And I’ll make sure from now on I’m gonna change that. And when people really ask, are gonna, Just tell it from the heart. That’s why we are here and that’s what all us males need to do.

Gus
You gotta, you gotta man up and speak up. Yeah. That’s basically the bottom line. And it’s actually braver to talk about it than bury your emotions again, because every time you’re saying No, no, mate, I’m good mate. No, no, no, no. That’s just another layer. Yes sir. Of going down into your own belly and eventually will see that. , there’ll be a snap, there’ll be an opportunity where you just are not yourself, and that’s just all the stuff you’ve buried and buried and buried. So you know this information, you are helping people every week on your podcast. You’re someone that they look up to. So lead by vulnerability when people say, are you okay, mate? And I go, you know what, I’m three outta 10 today. Yeah. It’s a really easy way of explaining. Give yourself a number outta 10. Yeah. Everyone understands that. And they go, anything I can do to help mate? He goes, you know what, just thank you for asking. But no, I’m working on it. But yeah, it’s gonna be a tough one today. Yeah, that’s absolutely honest. . It’s giving them the right answer. And it’s also probably just checking your brain to go, you know what? I probably do need to spend 20 minutes today where I just look out at the ocean. Or I do just sit in a bit of silence or I’m gonna tell Ange that I’m not quite up to whatever we are planning to do. You know, that relationship and having someone like my wife is just so brilliant in understanding cuz she works with me at Gotcha. Yeah. And this just, it just comes from friendship starting and then all the other stuff gets built on top of that.

Ange
I love your message, Man Up Speak Up. Too many guys, you know, really do have this pride issue, don’t they? And they really don’t wanna let anyone in.

Gus
Well, it’s not our fault Ange because we’ve been told all our lives that that’s what we’ve gotta do. You know, take a teaspoon of cement and, and harden. You know, what up? It’s like, well, that’s got us to the stats we’ve got Now, let’s go through them again. Seven blokes a day. Three ladies a day. 65,000 attempts a year in this country.

Ange
Wow.

Gus
That’s one every 28 seconds. So we’ve been chatting now for 25 minutes. You can do the math. More than 50 people have phoned the ambulance in this country since we started talking to say, I’ve either taken something, can you help me? Or a loved one, or a work colleague has found someone and said, you need to help me. So do the stats. Yes. It’s, we’ve got two out of the three of us chatting. Yeah. That have had someone that we know intimately and love take their own life. That’s happening more and more. So it’s time to put the line in the sand end and go, no, we’re not doing that anymore. We’re changing the rules. And like I said, it doesn’t mean we have to burst into tears all the time or have something deep and meaningful, but we need to have a part of ourselves to have that conversation and we’re not having it enough. The awareness is there, but the action behind it still needs to go.

Ange
Can I ask you a question then, if you knew someone that you might feel is in an experience like this or is perhaps at risk of developing them, what tips do you have for them? What should they do to help?

Gus
Well, there’s a couple of different things there. So. Normally, blokes are really good at masking this stuff. Yes, in particular, girls tend to be a little bit more open, but even that situation is changing as well. So what I’m trying to do at Gotcha4Life is try to get ahead of the curve where Mikey or my friend actually come up to us and go, you know what? I’ve been in a bad way for a little while now and I need you to help me. And then what do we do, Andy? What do you do straight away? You drop everything.

Andy
A hundred percent. It wouldn’t be anything I wouldn’t do. And, I even was driving past his house, you know, and at 8:30 in the morning and reached out to him, he didn’t even answer. And uh, I’m just like, holy shit. There’s so many things that could have played out so differently there.

Gus
And he has some mental fitness to go, you know what, I’m faking it to everyone else, mate. But I, and I know I don’t understand for a second why I’m going through this, but we’re not talking about the day before he took his own life. We’re talking about the mental fitness of him being so good. Yes. In the months in the lead up where he goes, you know what, I’m starting to get a bit bloody bit down. You know, I need you to help me with this. And of course, you drop everything, you help each other, you take him to the doctor, you, you ask him the questions, you bring the misses in, you have the whole conversation. You start building up a bit of a plan, your mental fitness plan. So that’s what I’m trying to do because us blokes Ange, we hide it so well, yes. But if someone. Someone that you expect to be out there and outgoing and fun and stuff, and they all sudden retract a little bit. They say no to some social stuff, they’re struggling, they’re business or whatever it might be, and you know that stuff. That’s when you sort of end up being a bit of a policeman, a bit of an inspector, and going, you know what? This heap’s going on in your life, brother. I just wanna say, If you ever need me, and I, I promise you, they’ll do what Andy says. He’ll go, no, no mate, I’m sweet. And you hang in there. You don’t ask ’em once, you don’t ask ’em twice. You don’t ask ’em three times. You keep asking until they’ve, they go , you know? And you go, okay, alright, fair enough. But you know where I’m coming from. You know, I’m coming from a place of love, you know, I haven’t got all my shit together. Yeah. I’ve got blah, blah, blah going on. And I’d come to you if I’ve got a drama. I just wanna make sure you are all right. Yeah. It’s that slightly deeper level of friendship. It’s like burning a mate into a friend. It’s like going back to kindy and like, you are my best friend, , you’re my special one. Everyone needs that special Gotcha4Life friend. And that’s why I’m trying to sort of take off the white coat and take away all the medical and the sort of the wellness tag and talk about just being a kinder, better friend than you are at the moment by checking in and having a conversation of gravity away from banter every now and again.

Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent mate. I just wanna point out to the entire Lifestyle Tradie team, um, and myself, obviously we’ve made the promise to be a Gotcha4Life mate to a friend. Can you explain to our listeners how this buddy system works?

Gus
Yeah, exactly. You just go to Gotcha4Life.org and you just pledge to be a gotcha for life mate. And what we’re trying to do is get a million pledges so then we’ve got a million sort of pairs of mates. Yeah. And we can then send out information to you to give you the tips and the tricks to be a better friend. It really is as simple as that. It’s sort of, like I said, taking away all the medical side of things and just getting back to being a decent human being. Understanding we are human, we’re gonna have ups and downs, we’re allowed to cry outside of a funeral. We’re allowed to cry outside of a footy team winning a match or winning a grand final or a state of origin, , you know, that sort of stuff. It’s just making it more and more human and the more times we give opportunities and tips to people, the more likely they’re gonna be to educate themselves and we’ll eventually get the mental fitness up of, of all, of all, of all our friendships out there.

Ange
I think, uh, your stats that you were quoting before is ridiculously confronting, but I think it’s really important for us to hear what those stats are. I’ve heard some stats in the trade industry that we as an industry are 53% more likely than any other industry to actually consider suicide or actually to go through with suicide, which I think just ridiculous. Yes. So, and you were claiming things like male suicides increased more than 40% in the last 10 years to 2019, and I think your website also says 3000 Australians each year die from suicide. I mean, this is crazy. Why do you think people are so afraid to ask for help and reach out?

Gus
Because it’s exactly what they’re. They’re doing exactly what they’ve been told to do all their lives. And that’s what grandma and grandpa were told. That’s what mom and dad were told. And then to a certain degree, I’m 53, so I certainly grew up feeling like I was told to man up, shut up and just get on with it. And I actually quite like that in a certain way because it gives you a set of boundaries. But what you need to do is have a bit of that in your life, but have a little bit saying, you know what? Piece of me needs some help here. I can’t just do this all by myself. So that’s like I say, when I talk to all the oldie guys in particular, at least, cause they’re going, why are you talking about, you know, you’re talking about sucking all the time. Carrying on. I’m saying, well, if you just want to keep these stats, keep going the same way. Why don’t we just keep doing the same thing over and over again? Like you don’t have to change necessarily. You might be too old in the tooth, but do it for the next generation. Yes. Because this life that they’re living in is so different to the one that you lived in. They’re just different people, the youngsters these days. So we need to look after ’em and stuff. So we need to change that narrative. Yeah, we need to change that from Man up, shut up to Man up, speak up. And that’s the simplest way that I can explain it. Plus the other thing I’d, uh, sort of take away, Ange would be don’t worry alone. You know, if you’re not worrying alone, then you’re telling someone about how you feel, and that’s the absolute key for me. That’s really simple, and you wouldn’t want anyone in your life to be sitting there stressing and worrying alone when you are just there, so that you could help them. It doesn’t mean you have to have all the answers, but you can become a part of the village. You know that old saying, it takes a village to bring up a child?

Andy
A hundred percent.

Gus
Well, it takes a village to bring up a human. And you just wanna be a part of that village for people that you love. It’s not a burden to be that person. You wanna be that person. So let’s have, let’s have, more and more of those closer and deeper friendships than we have at the moment.

Ange
I think this connection is so critically important. I think the next generation, although they are more open to talk, I think because of social media and the fact that they’re attached to their phones, you know, we’ve got two kids who are 15, 11. I see them so buried in their devices that I think both Andy and I are forever saying, can you get off that device and be a human and talk to people? So I do think this message is so critical for these guys to say your social connections through those devices are not true connections. You need to be able to talk to people so that we embed that early so that they are looked after for generations to ensure contact and communication and talking the way you are, the way you are, you know, the way you are asking is so critical for this, for this next round.

Gus
Ange, at the end of the day, I’ve got a 21 year old here, a 20 year old, and a young daughter doing the hsc. They are so good on these devices.

Ange
Are they?

Gus
They’re British and they’re addicted. The sounds, the colors, the dings, the vibrate, the whole thing, right? They’re completely addicted. They get so much satisfaction by just swiping up and down. Whereas we had to get satisfaction by going out and riding a bike, playing British Bulldog, playing sport, being out there. And so when I used to come home, when the, when the, when street lights came on. Right? Yeah. So my kids, even though, even with all the knowledge that my wife and I have got, we’ve only really got that knowledge over the last five years since the Man Up program is so much better because I’ve, we’ve been able to explain it to ’em. But even that it’s World War three to get their devices off . Yeah. It really is. So we are losing a generation who are literally just downward motion. Swiping. And they have never been more connected around the world and getting information and so forth.

Ange
Sure, yeah.

Gus
But they’ve never been less connected when it comes to human eye to eye, or even that conversation in the car, or a conversation when you’re doing some exercise, if you can grab them for five minutes to do something like that. It’s a real problem, a real issue. When I go away to the country with Freddie Fittler, we do these trips three times a year. And we talk to kids. And Freddy is just like, he can’t believe how mobile phones have taken over the world. And he talks about just trying to have it, having a day without your mobile phone, just one day. And the thought of that with those kids, he takes his mobile phones off the state of origin players when they go into camp.

Andy
Good.

Gus
And Josh Ato car in particular has Conniptions and it’s like, Josh, do you wanna play for New South Wales? Yes, boss. Give us your phone, Mike.

Andy
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Ange
Exactly.

Gus
And these are growing men with families and all that sort of stuff. So it’s not Josh’s fault, it’s just the way it is. But eventually they hand them in and of course, two days later they’re like, ah, how good is this? Yeah, this is absolutely brilliant. So we need to, we need to stand, stay in the grind with these things. And you guys as parents and all the tradies listening now that have got kids, You’ve just gotta have a bit of World War II just to get that balance back.

Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent mate. A hundred percent. And just one of the things when we were talking then and, and talking about old school and old bosses and all that, and I classify myself as a bit old school, but the generation, as Ange said, moving forward with the young kids. But I’m talking about, you know, your fifteens through to your 25 30s and, and they’re coming through these days. And I, and I do hear it from a lot of trade business owners, and I know there’s a lot of trade business owners listening right now, but we’ve been brought up in a world that’s so tough. And when some of these younger people coming through are like, you know, when I talk to these owners, I go, what happened? Oh, bloody Joni, he’s got today off. And I’m like, oh, why? What’s up? He said, mental. Mental health. He goes, oh my God, it’s killing me that all these guys are just taking time off work. I can’t believe it. And then it starts to become blurred lines for business owners that go, well, is it really, or is it their way of getting a day off and having a sick day? And it is a tough position, but what’s your advice on that? Cuz I don’t even know the answer to that, mate.

Gus
Yeah. Oh look, it’s a hard one and I know where they’re coming from and I’ve heard that too Andy. You don’t worry about that. Yeah. There’ll be young kids out there taking the piss for sure. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. But there’s also a lot of kids out there that are actually going, you know what? I really do need a mental health day. Yeah. And I need to have some time off. You never quite know what everyone else is going through. Right. And we should know that in our own examples of Mikey and my friend. So walking a mile in those people’s shoes is probably the hardest thing to do, and you can never do it. So you’ve just gotta give them the benefit of the doubt. When they are at work and they’re a good worker and so forth, you probably give them the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. At the end of the day, you’ve gotta trust them that they’re telling you the truth and kids are going through stuff now that we didn’t have to go through for whatever reason. You’ve just gotta understand that and that I know you need to suck it up as an old school sort of way of looking at it. Yeah. But. . That’s just the way it is Now. The world has moved on. It’s 2021. You don’t have to like it, but you just have to put up with it and you just don’t have to do the best you possibly can. But a good kid will always shine through over a period of time and a bad apple will go the other way too.

Ange
Agree.

Andy
Mate, a hundred percent buddy. I just wanna ask you, how do people out there get involved with your charity? You know, what are the things they can do right now to be able to help you guys?

Gus
Look, the greatest thing for me, Andy, is fundraising and people going out there and doing some sort of fundraiser for us, so give you an example. There’s a bloke at the moment walking barefoot from Can Sydney called The Barefoot.

Ange
Wow.

Andy
Wow.

Gus
The Dutchman who’s doing this amazing trip for us is Jamie Rogers, who you’d know from the big sports breakfast. Yes. And the tab ads and so forth. She’s gonna swim that English channel for us.

Andy
Wow.

Gus
So there’s those really big events. And then there’s some smaller events like a friend of a friend’s daughter just putting on a lemonade sale and we’re all buying bottles of lemonade for 15 bucks.

Ange
That’s great.

Gus
You know what I mean? But she’s there squeezing the lemon into the water. It doesn’t taste that flash, but she just wants to help Uncle Gus and all that sort of stuff. So we have up to 200 community events happening every year and it’s so awesome when people go, you know what? We wanna support what you are doing cuz we understand what you’re doing. It seems quite a simple thing to do, working on mental fitness, being a better friend and getting the tips and tricks so they believe in what we’re doing, so they fundraise for us. So anyone out there that wants to support us, donate and so forth, that would be the greatest help you can do. And there’s all obviously opportunities to volunteer when we have events on again, once this covid passes. You, you never have enough people to help you with those sorts of events as well. So if they go to gotcha4life.org and sign up or donate or decide to fundraise, we’ve got all the information there to make it as easy as possible for you. And we’ve got, there’s only six of us here at Gotcha. But we’re all very hands-on and if people want help and support, we can do that for ’em.

Ange
And sounds like you’re exceptionally passionate too. Hence the reason why we’re stoked to have you here. And I know that you’ve got additional programs that I know people could really lean into and learn more about this, so how they can actually apply it into their life. So, uh, absolutely. I urge people to go and, uh, have a look at your website. So, Gus, as you know, our listeners are specifically trade business owners and their partners. Do you have any advice or words of hope or maybe wisdom to share for them?

Gus
Yeah, I mean, well, at the moment, obviously we’re in Covid. I had so many messages from tradies. Oh really? You know, in, in a, in a, in a bit of a spin the last couple of weeks, the most important thing is to hang in there and know that this will eventually have an end game. So we have to sort of hang in there together and make sure we, we all realize that we’re going through something together. It’s not something that you are personally just going through or you are personally going through Andy. It’s about how we’re all going through it in different ways. So just take a little bit off, take I’ve been telling everyone and my family included, just take 10% off your expectations. Take 10% off what you think normally you will get from a relationship. Take 10% off what you expect you’ll get in terms of service and just understand that everyone’s going through a really tough time. It won’t be forever. And make sure you don’t worry alone. Worrying alone is the worst thing that you can do. Full stop. So tell someone in your life whether it’s professional, a partner, a mate. Make sure you tell them how you’re truly feeling. It doesn’t have to be all the time, but if it’s starting to bubble and build and that pressure, you feel it, just don’t let it get to a boiling point. Pull someone aside and say, you know what? I’m going through a bit of a tough time mate, and I betcha I can guarantee it to a certain point that they’ll be going through nearly exactly the same thing. There’s always people in your life that have got things sorted and other people have got things not. But the person over here might have something that you don’t have sorted. Sorted completely. So if we talk as human beings, we throw away perfect. And we realize we’re all bumbling through this a little bit, like trying to find the light bulb in the dark, then we’ll realize we just take that little bit of pressure off ourselves. So that would be the best advice I can give you. Ange, at the moment, that’s what I’m trying to live up to. There are days where I feel really helpless and other days I feel on top of the world, and that’s just human, right. We’re gonna have good and bad days and we should accept that.

Ange
Really great advice. Make sure you’re opening up to someone and the reverse, make sure you are leaning in and asking more questions, deeper questions of someone around you. So yeah.

Gus
I call it asking a second, third, and fourth question. And rather than, you know, it’s like, how are you going? And someone goes, I’m fine. I go, oh no you’re lying. Or I’m good, Andy, that you say, I know I’m good. That’s just bullshit, brother. So, you know.

Andy
I agree.

Gus
We need to get, like I said, you don’t have to tell everyone how you truly feel, but No, you know, Ange or one of your best, best mates, yeah, you should totally feel safe enough to have that conversation and you’ll feel so much better after it as well.

Ange
Correct.

Gus
You are in a real grieving place at the moment, mate, and you should just accept that. And sit in it and accept the fact that you’re gonna go through some real tough times, but you’ve got Ange there with you. Just don’t bottle it up, brother.

Andy
Yeah. Nah mate. Great words. Thank you.

Ange
Such great advice. Thanks so much for joining us today on The Tradie Show, Together in Trade business. Your charity is doing absolutely fantastic work and we at Lifestyle Tradie are so proud to be able to support and actually share this vision today.

Andy
Yeah mate, you’re an absolute superstar and it’s so good to have you on the show. And I know all the tradies and the business owners out there listening to this are gonna be like, oh my God, just to hear about mental fitness and how we can support each other. So mate, I got no doubt we’ll be catching up again very soon. And Lifestyle Tradie is gonna do whatever we can to help you guys as well. So I’m really looking forward to working a lot closer with your charity mate. And, uh, love to you brother and uh, thanks again.

Gus
My pleasure. Really enjoyed it guys, and look after yourselves. Okay?

Andy
Thanks mate.

Ange
Thanks Gus. You too.

Gus
Don’t worry alone. See you later.

Andy
See you mate.

Gus
Bye.

Andy
Gotcha4Life delivers programs that create meaningful mateship and build mental fitness, emotional muscle, and social connections in local communities to end suicide. Here at Lifestyle Tradie, we also agree that prevention is the best solution.

Ange
Honestly, that’s the toughest part about being a trade business owner. It feels like you walk the road alone. The final business decisions lie with you, and that can be a lot of pressure, especially when you feel nobody understands what you’re going through. That’s why it’s important to surround yourself with people who understand you, they understand your industry, and understand the decisions that you need to make in business.

Andy
Everyone right now, stop and think who is your mate and who can you be a better mate to?

Ange
Andy and I have worked tirelessly together to build a community of support so that no tradie feels they have to go alone.That’s why we felt, especially in the current situation where so many trade businesses are losing money left, right, and center, they’ve been stood down and unsure about what the future holds for their business. That now is the time to get support.

Andy
We all need to swallow our pride and just ask for help.

Ange
See the link in the show notes to Gus Worland charity. Gotcha4Life, or head to our website, lifestyletradie.com.au/podcast.

Andy
I don’t want to end this on such a solemn note. You know, I’m usually a very upbeat person, but this is a serious topic with serious consequences when this is not addressed. Gus’s charity message is really relevant to what we’re seeing in the trade industry today. Especially under the current circumstances, too many of us just don’t want to seek help. So we suffer in silence and sometimes with life altering consequences.

Ange
Don’t go alone. When there are people there to help. Talk to a mate, your partner, reach out to Gotcha4Life. The number one way Australian males are dying right now is sadly by suicide. This is something we have to change.

Andy
Wow. I just can’t believe those stats to be honest. It’s absolutely crazy. We all need to do better at supporting each other, and I encourage you all to go take the pledge at Gotcha4Life and help a mate in might literally save their life. Ange and I, we’d like to dedicate this episode in memory of one of my best mates, Mickey, uh, who took his life recently. Love you brother.