Field Team Mastery: Unlocking Growth Secrets with AroFlo’s GM

Ange
Yes. Managing a team, especially one that’s scaling quickly, presents a unique set of challenges for any business. You are faced with communication breakdowns, inconsistent work quality, and the struggle to maintain a cohesive team culture is absolutely real. 

Andy 
These hurdles can have a massive impact on your business operations and its growth. So we want to explore how these challenges play out in everyday scenarios and discuss how you as a leader can navigate all of this. 

Ange
Alrighty. Let’s go into it! 

Andy 
You’re listening to The Tradie Show. This is the podcast for trade business and contracting bosses like you who want to lead with confidence, make more profit, and create a better lifestyle.

Ange
We’re your hosts, Andy and Angela Smith, husband and wife team and co-founders of Lifestyle Tradie. Are you ready to have some fun? 

Andy 
Hell yeah! Remember the dream you had when you first started your trade business? The freedom, the profits, the extra time to maybe cast a line or ride on the open road. But now, you’re tangled in the back end mess of business, missing out on life’s good bits. I’ve been there, and it’s rough. Listen, let’s hash this out together. Find the snags in your business and sort them out once and for all. I’m talking about a real strategy, built from blood, sweat, and plenty of swear words of experience. Book a free chat with me at lifestyletradie.com.au. It’s about time you reclaimed your dream. 

So let’s talk about the pain points and hence the solutions of managing a growing team in your trade business. Because this is something you’re going to encounter if you ever want to scale your business, bigger and better than ever. 

Ange
This is one of the topics where it’s a case of you just don’t know what you don’t know. Hey, Andy. 

Andy 
Totally agree. I know for me, when I first started to grow our plumbing business, Dr. Drip, I thought, Oh, you know what? I’ll just hire more guys. I’m just going to go out and buy more vehicles and the money’s gonna just keep rolling in, baby. 

Ange
So naive. 

Andy 
I know, right? But when you start to grow and scale, what happens is, you just get more of what you already had in place. And sometimes when you don’t have the right structures and systems and you don’t prepare the right way for the next stage in business. Things go absolutely crazy and that’s what happened for us. 

Ange
Well, enter a job management system. We completely understand the benefits of every trade business adopting a job management system. However, we thought it would be really great to chat about how specifically a job management system can help with managing a growing field team. 

Andy 
And that’s why we brought in the big guns, Peter Darley, the General Manager at AroFlo. I’m sure you’ve probably all heard of AroFlo before because it was actually the software we use in our plumbing company, Dr. Drip. Welcome Peter. It’s fabulous having you here with us today. 

Peter
Thank you very much. I’m not sure about the big gun, but I’m happy to be here. 

Andy 
Of course, mate. Of course. 

Ange
It’s great having you. 

Andy 
Let’s talk about managing a growing field team in trade businesses, you know. Can you share some of the common people management challenges that you’ve observed in trade businesses?

Peter
Yeah, absolutely. So let’s start from the beginning, right? So you’re a tradie, uh, you’re working for a company, you decide, Hey, I’m going to break out on my own. I’m now a sole trader. Things are good. I put it on an apprentice or a member of staff. And then you sit there and go, Oh my God. Um, how do you manage these people? Cause I’ve never really had to formally manage and I’ve never learnt that becomes the first big hurdle. Right? So your team grows exponentially because you’re awesome at your job. Then you need to handle things like change management and all those other things. That is a massive hurdle to get through in that of those initial stages. And to get that right is not easy, um, doable. If you learn about it, read about it and just do it and give it a go. 

Andy 
Yeah. Agreed. 

Peter
That’s the main challenge that I see out there. 

Ange
So, how do these challenges impact the overall efficiency and therefore the growth of a trade business?

Peter
So, if you’re not managing properly and your people aren’t given clear guidelines of what to do and to achieve, then they get a little bit hissy about it. It reflects on your customer base because you’ve got this, you know, you have one of your people coming in going, oh. Yeah, it’s Colin. You know, I’m not really happy with your whatever, you know, so it affects your brand as well. So that definitely leads to growth, right? And it’s, if you don’t think it’s all about your people, you need to rethink, it’s all about your people. Yeah. Without them, you don’t have growth. Sorry, period. 

Andy 
No, a hundred percent. I think if you look back in the, and I always go back to that good old days, I feel so old these days, but you know, a lot of the times if our team weren’t the right fit, we can move them on pretty quickly and replace them pretty quickly as well, where now you need to put in that work and you need to make sure that you’ve got buying because if you’ve got a good brand and we talked about, we’ve talked about branding a lot, but you’ve got a good brand and you’ve got a good culture within your team that obviously helps with that growth of a trade business. So I agree with everything in that. And I suppose another one’s important as well is, um, leadership, like leadership. There’s a lot of challenges in running a business and leadership plays a massive part. What’s your thoughts around that? 

Peter
It’s all about it. It’s everything. Right? So, um, you know, you’ve got to be visible to your people. Um, you lead, they’ll follow. You don’t lead, they just disperse, right? If you want someone, I love death watching, you know, every week it’s Simon Sinek. I love that. 

Andy 
Yeah. Yeah.

Peter
On leadership, and remember, It’s not a job title, you choose to lead or you don’t, it’s up to you, right? 

Andy 
That’s true, and the thing that I found really interesting is we come across some tradies and they grab an incredible job management system, but they don’t use it very well. And they go, ah, you know what? I’m just not, I’m the boss and I’m not doing that, but my boys should do it. And you’ve got bucklies of getting your team to do something when the very leader himself won’t do it. Like it’s crazy. 

Peter
Yeah, it looks so true. And that, you know, in the field management piece, right? If you find the team’s not adopting that hand piece, yeah, uh, the field tool, then It’s not their problem. It’s actually your problem. 

Andy 
I agree. 

Peter
You haven’t got their buy-in properly or well enough. And you’re not going to get resistance. Change is different. You know, from going from, what is it, the old days, triplicates and all that sort of stuff. Yes. But people see the benefit in this, in this tech, right? But coming back to it, it’s not their problem, it’s yours.

Andy 
Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. And being a true leader is leading by example and making sure you’re doing the hard yards first. And if you’re doing the hard yards first, they’re going to follow. 

Ange
Well, as you say, one of the things we talk about a lot, Peter, is these different growth phases of business, this startup, scale up and sell up. You touched on the fact that, you know, when someone decides to go out on their own, as we know, most people, most tradies that go to TAFE, 99. 9 percent of them have a dream to actually own their own business. They’ve only learnt from their previous boss, from their apprenticeship, and they pretty much go out and copy, you know, their previous boss when they have this desire, this dream to own their own business. And we can only hope that their previous boss had some form of a job management system, called AroFlo, embedded as a platform to support this foundation. Because if they don’t, they’re getting it into lots of trouble. And where I see it is, they get so busy just trying to get a new customer, do a job, make money that they get so busy. And their first answer to this just to make more money is put on a new person. I’m not necessarily saying it’s the right thing to do. However, that’s what they do. They don’t realize that there’s not much profit in the job. However, we are really clear about explaining to tradies, you must have a job management system to help you be far more efficient to ensure that Everything is seamless so that you are streamlined and so that you now can actually truthfully be the owner you need and actually manage properly and lead by example.

Andy 
It’s not just having a job management system though, they’ve got to actually use it and use it to its full potential. 

Ange
What’s your thoughts about that? 

Andy 
I’ve had a lot of people say to me, I’ve got a job management system, but I don’t like it. And I say, what product is it? And they tell me, and I go, that’s a cracking system. You just don’t know how to use it. Isn’t that true? 

Peter
Have you got an hour for me to go through this? So the major problem that I have in my business, right, is when a customer comes to us, they go through implementation, and it’s a tough process, yeah? 

Andy 
It is. It’s quite a bit. 

Peter
It’s quite changed. And I will be open with customers and say, I’m going to put you through a few months of pain before you get the hang of this, yeah? But that’s where 90 percent of our customers stop at their implementation. We’re producing features all the goddamn time.  Excuse the language. 

Andy 
No, no, no. 

Ange
We’re tradies, say what you want. 

Andy 
Never swore a day in my life.  

Peter
These features are coming out all the time, but our customers just stop at the end of the implementation. They’re not taking on board all these other features that can make you more efficient, give you back more time, lead better, you know, all that sort of stuff. You need to keep on top of your system as well, right? It just can’t stop when you’ve finished the initial implementation. 

Andy 
And I had this one guy, ring me and I had a chat with him. He said, I tried this job management system, which I know is good. And he said, I hated it. So I went to this job management, which I know is good. And he hated it. Then he went to this job manager, which I know is good and he hated it. And where he ended up, he goes, I’ve found it. And I think this is the one I love. And I hate that system. And this is the problem. People are just going on what they want to use, but it’s not giving you the end outcome. And that’s why no pain, no gain. 

Peter
Correct. You got to go the hard yards and use as much of that software as you can for your benefit. Without it, you might as well go back to paper.

Andy 
Yeah, exactly. 

Ange
Well, it takes us back to, you know, 20 years ago when we were running on paper on our business. I mean, that, I mean, that’s just,  yeah. 

Andy 
Well, it was hard work and you needed more team members, more people in the office. And next, we had five people in the office. I’m like, God, look how many people are in the office. And in the end, Dr. DRiP had one person in the office for five trucks out on the road because we use AroFlo. We think 99  percent like we absolutely nailed it and it was incredible for us and our business. 

Peter
I enjoy it when my customers challenge me, you’re right and you know, they become super users on the system and they’re bending the system to the nth degree. I love that sort of feedback, right? Because you know that they’re absorbing every part of that software.

Ange
We do these live events around the country, Peter, called Lifestyle Tradie on Tour, anyway. One of the questions we ask everyone inside the room is, Who here has a job management system? We get them to put up their hand and they’re all really proud. If those that do, it surprises us that some don’t even have a job management system, to be fair. And then the next question we ask is, well, for those who had their hand up, if we took it away from you today, how would you feel about that? Tell the others who don’t have one. They’re all screaming. Oh my, got to be the worst. Don’t ever, you don’t, you don’t take that from me. But then the next thing we ask of you is if you were to scale yourself between zero and 10, how well do you actually use the product? And so we do, we rank them zero, you know, zero to three, la, la, la, because if all they’re doing is using a dispatch board. That is not helping anybody. You actually need to understand the features. And what I loved about what you just said is you’re coming out with new features that of course may not benefit maintenance versus project jobs or whatever. It’s up to us in our business to understand what it is that’s new for you. So that we can then go and implement to ensure that we’re doing it well, there’s so many fabulous tools that we can adopt.

Peter
So true, right? So next quarter, I’m bringing out square meter pricing, right? So square meter pricing has been in great demand, but my biggest problem  is getting people to read my emails and read my posts and stuff like that to say it’s here because there’s so many people in that niche market that can use it and there’s no other software that does it. So, I just need people to keep their eye out and keep up on top of their software for these new features that come through. 

Ange
So, I’d love to talk about a couple of real life scenarios. Could you, Peter, share some critical people management decisions that you’ve actually observed being made in trade these days and the impact of what those decisions have been?

Peter
Yeah. So, I’ll expand outside of trade as well, right? So, to a degree, it’s become a bit of a disease I see, is that in recruitment, and recruitment’s everything. Yeah. Absolutely everything. You know, I hear these people going, Oh, I’ve got this really smart dude. Yeah. He’s really good. He’s highly technical. Yeah. Really clever and all that sort of stuff. But many, many times I can’t get sh*t done. Yeah. So hire the average dude who’s actually good at getting stuff done because that person’s going to make you the money. Not the smart dude who just thinks about stuff all the time, right? And it happens a lot and you watch people recruiting. I’ve got this really, really clever dude. Yeah, but they just can’t get it done. Or they have a lack of communication with their customers and stuff like that. You can build on skills. You can’t build on communication and getting stuff done, attitude, right? That is the major problem I’m seeing today, here and now in every industry. 

Andy 
Yeah. And you get these guys rocking up, you know, to a trade business looking for a job and they want megabucks, like I’m talking megabucks. And when you actually chat with them, they talk a good game, but when you get them out on the road, they’re dead set rubbish and  they’ve talked themselves into this role and then I’m like, mate, get out of here. Not even close to this role you’re talking about, but this is where sometimes you’re better off bringing the right people in with the right integrity that think like you do, are willing to learn and you can train them up and you get better out of them. And I know that’s what you’re saying, because there’s a lot of these, what I’d say, high ticket sales tradies that have worked for these companies that have charging megabucks and they’re getting commissioned from, but after a while that has burned themselves out of that role. And then they try and come into your, uh, or another trade business and they try and bring it and most, Oh, wow, this guy’s an incredible seller, but then he comes over and he may be a good seller, but he burns all the customers, everyone around him, the office staff, the other tradies, and he’s a disaster. And I’ve seen that so many times. Get the right people in with the right attitude and train them up. 

Peter
Yep. Slow to recruit, fast exit. 

Andy 
Yeah, I agree. 

Ange
Yes. 

Andy 
Another thing I want to talk about is that a lot of tradies are control freaks, right? And you know what? I was a control freak too. 

Ange
Yes, you were. 

Andy 
And would say sometimes I’m still a bit of a control freak, but I’m a lot better letting go. But what I want to ask you, Peter, is how can we balance the need of being in control with everything, but also empowering your team to be able to step up as well?

Peter
Yeah, yeah. I think we’ve all been there. Yeah. 

Andy 
Yeah. I think so. I think as a business owner, you’ve got that control freak to start in the first place.

Peter
Correct. And you’ve had to, right? In the beginning, but, and this is the uncomfortable stretch I call it, right? So it’s recognizing that you’re a control freak. So you’re doing everything and you’re only giving bite sized chunks out to your people and people actually want to do more generally. Right? So there’s that uncomfortable stretch where you know that you need to let go a little bit, but to do that, you’ve got to do it smart, right? You just can’t sit there and it’s not good for you or your people either. If you just start dishing stuff out, right. If you do so and say, here’s clear guidelines of what I want achieved. Yeah. And make that clear and make it understood more importantly. Yes. They don’t go do their thing. Right? Because they’ll do it differently to you and it’s uncomfortable to watch that, but quite often they’ll do it better than you at the end of the day. Yeah. 

Andy 
It’s true because many times that happened to me where I was like, Oh my God, I’m just going to have to do this myself. And I got, you know, I got to a point I’ve got to let the boys do it. Otherwise I’ll always be, I’ll never have a business that can run without me. Right. So he led him to do it. And at times you’re cringing and moaning, but at the end of the day they find their way, they find sometimes a better way. And I’ve definitely had staff that were better than me out on the tools running jobs. There’s no doubt about it. 

Ange
Well, think about the truth of why you want that. Every trade business owner, one of their ultimate goals is to have freedom or time to be able to take, even if you said a day off, but what they actually want is to be able to go on holiday and know that the business is still operating profitably whilst they’re gone. However, we all know that the reality is they take these holidays because their partner is putting pressure on them and they actually do want to take a break. However, they have a phone stuck to their head 24/7 whilst they’re there and they come back going, Oh my God, why did I even go away? Like I’m so stressed because I haven’t just haven’t let anybody take, they’ve actually got staff, they’ve actually got people they could have allowed to take control. And to your point, Peter, I feel that their team actually does want to take on more responsibility. It’s just the owner hasn’t, you know, given them that opportunity, even to your point, starting things small, explaining what you want them to do. And in actual fact, they’ll probably do it better. 

Peter
Yeah. Look, I happily go on holiday here at AroFlo because I’m really quite proud of my team. There’s clear guidelines when I’m away that you can contact me, no problem, because you know, stuff happens,  right? But they know exactly where they can get to decision making. Yeah. God forbid the world ends. Then send me a text. Yeah. You know, they have carte blanche to do within their ability to do their job. Right? And it makes me have a better holiday. Right? You know, and my wife’s not at me because the phone’s always ringing with work. Right? Or I’m not on video conferences, you know, two hours a day when we’re in Cairns, whatever.

Andy 
Yeah. And that’s where having the right structure and systems come into place, doesn’t it Ange? And that’s what really turned it around for us. 

Ange
Well, let’s dive into that a little bit. So Peter, if you looked at systems and how they can supplement or even replace aspects of people management, can you maybe share your thoughts about that?

Peter
Yeah, absolutely. So with the right systems, you know, Without the systems, you spend all your time getting to the number so you can manage that number, right? With the right systems, the system does it for you, yeah? So you can see where you are on that project. You can see where you are on top of jobs in the field. You can see what your completed statuses are, you know? Without that, you have to go begging and, and 

Ange
You’re very blind, aren’t you? 

Peter
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just gives you that ability to step up. And I hate to sound cliche, but work on the business instead of in it. Yeah. And it actually gives you a better offering to your customers as well, instead of some handwritten thing. And my handwriting is terrible. Imagine having something nice and professional handed to your customer, um, whether it be in the field  and paid in the field or from the office. So there’s a good system and a good system that is used well, will pay off in spades, helping you manage your people, which ends up leading your people to.

Andy 
And I think back in the office, a couple of the hottest words out there are structure and systems and everyone that rings me and wants to be a part of what we do. They always say, I want structure. I want systems. And then they tell me about their business and I’m like, holy crap, you don’t even have a job management system? You’ve got nothing in your business? Let’s just go back to basics and get the foundations of your business first before we get these high level systems in place. So that’s where I come back to this, you know, automation of workforce software, like you guys, how do you contribute that to employee satisfaction and performance?

Peter
Yeah, look, I’ll put it out to the guys in the field, right? So, you know, you move from paper and I remember when I was a service manager, you know, uh, every Friday morning I’d have timesheet meetings and I go and collect all these time sheets and the boys would be  rapidly in their cars  telling, yeah, you’re crazy  today.

Andy 
Trying to remember. So I remember the good days. 

Peter
Yeah. Yeah. So they hated timesheets. Yeah. On the Friday morning and then I collect all these timesheets and there were wads of these damn things, right? And I then have to go back immediately to the office to get admin to start data entering all this stuff, right? Yeah. And they hated it. Yeah. They hated Fridays because it was timesheet day. Yeah. So the guys in the field, they don’t need to do that anymore. It may sometimes take some encouragement to see the benefit of that sometimes.  But to have that in their field tool, just entering in data, they don’t need to touch it anymore. Yeah. It’s done. It’s dusty. They’re clocking off. They’re finished for the day. Their day is complete. There’s no, no catching up with timesheets. So I found when technicians, when they sat there and went, you know, the penny drops, this is quite cool. They’re happier technicians, right? Same thing in the office as well, if you don’t have that whole, you know, four hours of data entry like that, yeah, you can make them more efficient and do other things to make more money. Yeah. They’re happier. Yeah. Taking that mundane rubbish out of their hands. 

Ange
Well, especially when you start talking about what’s actually happening out in the field to what is happening inside the office. And we talk about the flow of a job. So even if you did one job and the one job only took you a couple of hours, or it was a big job that took you a couple of months, either way, components of that move in between being out in the field and coming back into the office. And if people don’t do their job, what are they responsible for? It puts so much pressure and stress on the other person, whether they’re in either place. So the two parts of this business need to work seamlessly. And if they were to slow down and really understand the flow of a job down to, you know, the buttons they press in AroFlo for the job management system, whilst they’re with a client, uh, collecting money on site to what comes back into the office. So now they’ve collected money and I, in the office, I don’t have to be that person now going, Oh my God, tradie, like there was a step in there that you were supposed to do, like do your job. It’s so frustrating. Right? So what’s great is when you can actually structure and streamline the flow of a job so that everyone understands what is expected of them, their performance improves, they like to be left alone. It’s like, I know exactly what’s expected of me from my boss and I can actually do a good job. And now in a toolbox meeting, you’re praising me instead of reprimanding me and the team loves each other instead of hating each other.  

Peter
Correct. It’s a completely different world. When you make that change, it’s a completely different world and you can focus on the real problems.

Ange
Correct. 

Andy 
And there’s a lot of old school businesses right now that they’re getting young guys coming in and they’re like, where’s the job management system? Where’s this? Where’s that? I, this business is not for me. And they’re out the door. They understand it’s harder now if you don’t have these job management systems in place for the tradie and for the owner and definitely for the office staff.

Peter
Absolutely. 

Ange
Peter, can you give an example of a trade business that transformed through adopting systems like this? 

Peter
Yeah, I’ve got heaps, but my favorite one Is actually a larger business, right? So, I’ve watched a whole bunch of smaller, medium sized businesses and stuff like that. I watched a larger business who were just, um, Let’s just say hopeless at scheduling, right? So, they were running 65 million bucks on a spreadsheet. Yeah, and scheduling of jobs. It became so bogged down  that they would allocate two technicians, four hours to do one job in the morning, two technicians, four hours to do a job or three hours in the afternoon. Yet it could be for a key switch. 

Ange
I just think of human error.

Peter
Thank you. And also the cost of that key switch to men. 

Andy 
That’s ridiculous. 

Peter
Because they couldn’t schedule any better. So when they came to a system, they went, oh, wow, look at all I can do. And they only use that component of the system, right? But it changed their world in efficiency and in a business like there’s at the time where in their maintenance division, they were looking to find an extra 20 or 30 minutes of productivity. And that would be a great goal. The repairs department. You know, the productivity went through the roof just using this component of the system, but I just love going to events and stuff like that and listening to customers come up and go, you know what? It was hard at first making the change, but wow, it’s changed our lives. We have time to do stuff. We are doing things better. It’s just really lovely to hear these stories when people come up and talk to you. 

Andy 
Yeah, it is. And there’s a lot out there, we’re one of them as well. And I know the other software job management systems out there, like it’s changed the world. Right. But the world is changing, isn’t it? You know? So like in regards to that, what is the future for AroFlo and how are you looking at helping trade businesses thrive in the future? 

Peter
Yeah, so we’re constantly listening to the market as well, right? So I meet about this every fortnight. That’s about our roadmap. Where are we going to develop next? What are we going to do? What is the feedback going out? I’ve got product owners out there talking to customers in the field every week now, you know, so one of those was square meter pricing that’s coming out. It was a big demand.  But the future, you know, and a lot of people sit there and say, and I’ll get on to the AI topic if you want.

Andy 
Well, definitely. I mean, AI is changing the world and no one, even the best experts in the world, know where we’re going to be in five years. So it’s moving at a rapid pace, right? 

Peter
Yeah. I chewed the facts with my CTO about this a lot, right? And we go, how’s AI going to fit? We know there’s a fit there somehow.

Andy 
Definitely. 

Peter
At the moment, you know, we’re seeing AI as a natural fit into the BI business intelligence tools because it’s about analysis, right? Things like that. We can also see it in the writing of proposals. Yes. You look at ChatGPT. Um, you know, I write everything on ChatGPT because it writes a lot better than I can.

Andy 
Yeah, exactly. 

Peter
So there’s elements that we can work into it, the trick is though, right? Everything comes at a cost and I’m not talking about dollars, right? So imagine AI, we plonk AI into AroFlo, right? And we want it to look for projects that are going sour or projects that are gonna smoke, right? Or maintenance jobs that are not profitable or things like that. The trick here is that AI is like a baby. You need to teach the baby how to walk. You need to teach the baby how to eat. You need to teach the baby how to talk before it becomes useful, right? 

Andy 
Great. 

Peter
So it takes a lot of effort for that business to teach AI how to work in their business because, you know, you might be using the same AroFlo system, but you use it a little bit differently on each end, right? So you’ve got to teach that thing. You’ve got to, once again, you can put the effort in to do it. Now we’re just still discussing at this point on how AI is going to work, where it’s going to work and all that sort of stuff. You’re right. Nobody has a clue how AI is going to fit into many businesses. And we know there’s a place for it and how to deploy it is the next trick. But, um, stay tuned. Yeah. It’s coming at one point. 

Andy 
Well, we, we had a couple of AI experts come into our business and explain what they could and can’t and how it all, and, and the moral of the story was that, pretty much what you just said, then there’s, it can do so much, but it was almost like we needed to buy our own robot. We needed to have a person sitting in our office all day, monitoring it and making sure it’s doing the right thing. And then all of a sudden the cost effectiveness was like, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, we’re a long way off that we may be in a different place in a year, two years. Amazon and the leading people around the world are doing all this kind of stuff. So there’s no doubt there’s going to be a place for it in the trade industry. I’m well and truly trying to be on top of that. So we know what is going on, but it’s a rapidly changing space. So no, I, I understand that it’s a tough one, the AI, but it’s certainly coming.

Ange
I think the education for all trade business owners is really just to take a breath, take a step back. And for you to ensure that you are streamlined, systemized and profitable. 

Andy 
Exactly. 

Ange
That you have a job management system like AroFlo in your business, even at its most basic, just use a dispatch board as an example, just use it for communication with notes between your field staff and your office. Don’t get carried away trying to implement 25 different aspects of the product because you need it tomorrow. You know, I liked your, we use a similar language to have a roadmap. Like what does one year look like? And then break that back as to what are the solutions that you’re trying to find?

Andy 
So I’ll tell you this, if AI does come in and it comes in thick and fast into the trade industry, the ones that it’s going to serve are the ones that are using a good job management system and they’ve structured and systemized the right way or the other businesses that are doing this poorly, AI is not going to benefit them even remotely as close as the guys that are already structured, systemized, running the right technology. Isn’t that right Peter? 

Peter
I mean, let me put that a different way as well. So for the people who have their system optimized, they’re using the absolute vast amount that they can in the system and having the right structure and the right people to do this as well. You’ll get the other ones, they’ll take AI on and use it well. The rest who’ve only half implemented the system and are really just half in, aren’t even going to get to AI, so they’re way behind the pack at that point, right? 

Andy 
Exactly. 

Ange
All that sounds absolutely amazing, but Peter, I have a question for you, which is, do you actually have any final thoughts or advice for trade business owners? 

Peter
Yeah, absolutely. The one for me is don’t be afraid to change, right? 

Andy 
100%. 

Peter
Necessarily doing the same thing again, expecting a different result is wrong too, right? So just change, try it, and if it screws up, so what? Yeah? You’ve tried, go another angle, and you’ll eventually find the best outcome, yeah? Just by sitting there doing the same thing is not going to get you anywhere fast. Keep on changing, keep on evolving, keep on trying, and stuffing up. Stuffing up is okay. We do it here. Yeah. Uh, we run it all and go, Oh, that was the wrong way. Just open your throat. 

Ange
Isn’t there a great quote that says fail forward to that? Keep doing something until you eventually work out something that’s right.

Andy 
If I went back and went over all my stuff ups over the years. There’d be a crapload, wouldn’t there, Ange? Oh, dear, dear, dear. 

Peter
Yeah, I’ve got a portfolio. 

Andy 
Yeah, but you’ve got to keep moving, you’ve got to keep going, you’ve got to be watching what’s out there, you’ve got to be at the top of that tree and keep driving for excellence. So, Peter, we, um, on every episode, we play a bit of a game and we ask these three rapid fire questions and you have less than 30 seconds to answer them. Are you ready? 

Peter
Yes. 

Ange
All right. Question one. What is one strategy you use to start your day right? 

Peter
It’s an old school thing, but a to do list. If it’s not on the to do list, it doesn’t get done. You add to the to do list. And the best part is whether it be electronically or with a highlighter is you get to cross it off.  

Andy 
Yeah, and you feel like you’ve achieved something because you’re ticking your list off as you go. No, I love that. I love that. 

Ange
Are you cheeky and add something to your to-do list that you know that you’ve actually already done just so you can cross the first one off?

Peter
Uh, yes.  

Ange
Yes. I do that too. 

Andy 
And um, the second one is what’s something that made you smile recently? 

Peter
My daughter, in fact, so she’s just started an internship at Telstra. It’s her first taste of a real-job, full time job, and I love working and I’m actually watching her love going to work each day. She’s in the city, you know, she’s coming back, loving it. Absolutely loving it. 

Andy 
What would you do if you didn’t work? I know a lot of people go out surfing, dirt bike ride, but realistically work does bring that, bring something to your life that you need. There’s no doubt about it.  

Peter
Humans are like horses. They need to work. If they’re left idle, things go wrong.

Andy 
Agreed. Body breaks down as well.  

Peter
Correct. 

Ange
Use it or lose it. That goes for everything. Parts. Brain. 

Peter
Agreed. 

Ange
So, Peter, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?

Peter
Um,  Chris Payne, a mentor when I was young, I was about 21, and he’d say to me, uh, Peter, uh, that ain’t a sale until the money’s in the bank. Understand that, son. And I go, Oh, fine. The other one I love using all the time is, be that guy. Yeah. The people will follow, get in the fight, be visible, you know, get dirty. Right. And people follow that. Right. But just be that person that you want people to follow and then life’s fun. Right.

Andy 
I love that. I love that. Well, Chris Payne said to you, mate, cause that’s so true. A lot of people give a quote. They get the quote accepted and they’re like, Oh my God, I’ve got so much work. I’m going to make so much money. Then it falls over. Then they’ve got no work or they do the job and they make no money because they didn’t quote it the right way. But there’s so many things around that. I just love that. I love that. So Peter, that is awesome stuff. We’ve absolutely loved having you a part of The Tradie Show, obviously sharing all your wisdom and insights on managing teams and how to use systems to streamline this. And I know there’ll be a lot of people out there inspired to want to implement better systems and better structures and, and job management systems. And I’ll just say one word. If you do not have a job management system, do it now because they are that important, but if you’re not using it to its full capacity, please step up. You need to be able to use it to its full capacity. 

Peter
Yep. So true. 

Ange
Thanks again, Peter. Really appreciate your time. 

Peter
Great to see you guys again. Thanks, Hoops. 

Ange
Well, that’s it for this week, friends. Make sure you tune in next week for another great episode of The Tradie Show. 

Andy 
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