Quadrupling Your Roofing Business: Lessons From Jamie & Ashley Cairns

 Andy
If you’re looking to overcome obstacles and discover strategies that really work, Jamie and Ashley’s story will spark new ideas and motivate you to take action. Let’s get on with the show. You are  listening to The Tradie Show. This is the podcast for trade, business and contracting bosses like you who wanna lead with confidence, make more profit, and create a better lifestyle. 

Ange
We’re your hosts, Andy and Angela Smith, husband & wife team, and co-founders of Lifestyle Tradie. Are you ready to have some fun? 

 Andy
Hell yeah.  All right, let’s cut to the chase. When was the last time your business worked for you instead of running you into the ground? If you’re sitting there thinking, yep, that’s me, then we need to talk. I’m Andy Smith and I’ve been where you are. Long hours, cashflow, nightmares, no control. Does any of these sound familiar? But here’s the thing, you don’t have to keep living like this. There’s a way out and it starts with a game plan call. It’s just 10 minutes. We’re going to identify the bottlenecks holding your business back and map out a clear, straightforward plan to get you moving forward. Think of it as your shortcut to make more profit, more control, and more time to actually enjoy your life. And if you’re stuck with cash flow issues, team headaches, or just feel like you’re drowning in endless work, well guess what? I’ve got your back. So here’s what you need to do. Head to lifestyletradie.com.au, hit the big green Gameplan Call button, or just scroll down on your phone. Listen, if a 10 minute call could save you hours of headaches and give you a real shot at turning 2025 into a breakthrough year, why wouldn’t you take it? Make the move. Let’s turn things around and get your business working for you. Not against you. Hell yeah.  

Ange
So Jamie and Ashley, thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today. It is so great to have you both here. 

Jamie
Oh, thanks for having us. 

 Andy
You guys are absolute superstars, but I’m going to start first with you, Jamie, and talk about stepping out of your comfort zone. You came up on stage at our last member event. I know that was a really big deal for you because you were super uncomfortable. So firstly, I want to say good on you. You’re an absolute superstar, and now we’ve got you on the podcast. How have you overcome that fear and what advice would you give to others who feel the same way?

Jamie
We and Ash actually had a day off that day and we were sitting at the pub going through our finances and uh, the message came through from you saying, Hey mate, pick it up, grab it and put me up on stage. My mind instantly was just, Absolutely, no way. Ash overheard, looked at me and went, absolutely yes. We both looked at each other. Um, and then, and she, she just said one thing. It’s all about growing. And basically it was just, it hit me straight away. I can’t have a growth mindset and grow my business if I can’t grow myself. Um, so I just instantly replied, let’s do it. It’s not going to be the funniest thing I’ll do, but let’s do it.

Ange
Well, you didn’t die, right? You’re here to tell the story, tell the tale, as they say.

 Andy
Wait, wait, wait. When you say you didn’t die, you were amazing and everyone loved you. Like to put into perspective, you’re a larrikin lad that loves a beer and you’re just a cracking guy with a great smile. And everyone loves just talking and having a beer and getting to know you. And that’s what it was like on stage. You and I were just having a chat and it really came across and you did an incredible job. 

Jamie
Yeah. Thanks, Andy. Definitely the imposter syndrome was hanging around. And, um, by the time I got up on stage and I was telling myself, you know, what are people actually going to take out of this? And you look around and people are taking notes. Um, that was, that was just like, let’s get this done. It was just like a massive buzz and that buzz is still going now. So. 

Ange
Amazing. And kudos to you, Ashley, because it’s always amazing to have a supporter in your corner. So to be a support for each other is actually really important and needs to be highlighted. So, um, go you for saying, let’s, let’s do it. Get back up on stage.

 Andy
So mate, your business is Reliable Roofing and Property Maintenance down there in South Australia. What inspired you to start your own business? Because we do know you were doing a bit of FIFO work before that. So tell us a bit about that as well.

Jamie
Yeah. So I was, uh, contracting roofing, um, in a niche market of roofing for about 10 to 15 years, uh, for multiple contractors, multiple, uh, businesses. Um, I always had it in the back of my mind to start the business. Um, but I got a little bit sick of the roofing and the market that it was, was heading the way it was heading. Yeah. So I went and got a second trade and I was working offshore for close to five years. Uh, but it was always in the back of my mind to pull that up and come home and spend more time with the kids. And then when COVID hit, it was the perfect kick to start a new business. 

Ange
So, Ash, I know you don’t officially have a role in the business at the moment, but your career skills in employment services are definitely super helpful. What do you currently do to help Jamie and this business that you co-own on a day-to-day basis? 

Ashley
It’s more around like that sort of soundboarding support piece with the experience that I’ve got in the people management space. So employment services is something that I’ve done in a corporate kind of capacity now for 11 years. So it’s, we were able to soundboard some of those people challenges that may be happening in the business. You know, I can offer insight into experiences that I’ve had and how I’ve dealt with those situations. And I think mainly it’s just being that soundboard. Like I’ve said before, um, I do know a lot about what happens in the business, even though I’m not in the business. So I think it’s probably just being able to work through some of those issues outside of the business. So that Jamie can come back in and effectively address some of those challenges.

Ange
What I love is that even though you don’t work in the business specifically on a day to day basis, you are so involved to a point that you come with him to our Lifestyle Tradie live events. Which is great because not only are you involved in the education that he hears, uh, you now have an understanding of what you need to do to go back and execute inside the business. And therefore you can hold him accountable, let’s call it. So that being said, because you had this understanding that, you know, a lot of partners do work inside the business, have you actually thought about working together? And is this something on the cards for your future?

Ashley
I think maybe in the future there could be a space for Jamie and I to work together in the business. You know, I think I’ve mentioned to you both before. I think if it’s gonna happen, it will happen a little bit more organically. Not so much, you know, Ashton needs you in the business. And I mean, that has been said a little bit yes. Here and there. But, um, I think the way it works at the moment is probably healthy for us both, um, from a relationship perspective, but also a business perspective. And as you said, I come to the events. And I think I underestimated how much I initially knew about what happens in the business until I started coming to the R&Rs and being able to participate in things like the masterminds and things like that, I actually know a lot about it without having to be in it. So I’m able to still, you know, add value to my corporate career and, and be a part of the business. 

Ange
Well, let’s be real. You actually have your hands full. Not only do you have a full time job, but the two of you have little children, which keeps your hands full. So I think it also probably needs to be said that not every couple, you know, married couple should actually ever work together. So it’s good that you’ve kind of tossed up the idea and maybe if it does happen organically, maybe one day it will. So we’ll see. 

Ashley
Watch this space.

Ange
Watch this space. 

 Andy
Jamie, you’ve been operating the business for five years now. Can you talk about how your business has changed in this time? And you started out with roofing, correct?

Jamie
Yeah. So we started out as roofing. Um, it’s obviously my, my, my passion, my love, but obviously when you start a business, you take on whatever you can get. Um, I’m actually quite handy with my hands. So I did start offering the odd property maintenance, um, and then straight away I realised I was going to get busy in roofing. So we focus on roofing maintenance rather than property maintenance. Yeah. Now we didn’t take it out of our name because it does ring true with a lot of property managers, which is a large part Uh, market segment.

 Andy
Yeah. And you were talking to me about when you brought in the, the, the property maintenance, it actually really helped when you have big storms and that down in South Australia, all the property managers, you’re the ones that run around and do all the roof leaks, which then turns into a lot of new roofs.

Jamie
Yeah. A hundred percent. Once we realized that property managers were a good segment for us and that we could offer them exactly what they’re looking for. Uh, we really dived in deep and now I think we’ve got between 50 and 70 property managers. That basically means that when it rains, instead of not having five or six employees standing around pushing the broom, um, our emails are going crazy. We’re able to get that instant service to the property managers and that has allowed us to grow as a business. 

 Andy
That is absolutely huge. So how did you build those steps around, you know, getting those property managers on board and those relationships? 

Jamie
Communication, Andy, of course, no property manager wants to send you a work order and then have to chase you in two weeks time to say, Hey, what happened with that work order? When we realised that communication was the key, we just dived straight into that. We set up our, um, touch points and basically now, you know, the property manager will send us an email. We’ll contact the tenant straight away. We contact the property manager, say what we’ve done each way, each step through the process. The property manager knows where they stand. So if their landlord says, Hey, how’s that going for my quote, how’s that roof leak going? I don’t have to ring us and chase us straight away. That just became amazing for our business.

 Andy
That’s great. And I know 50 to 70 property managers, that is absolutely huge.

Ange
Absolutely. So Jamie and Ashley, I know you’ve grown your team to 10 members in the last five years and gone from half a million dollar business to a 2 million business and quadrupled your profit. What incredible numbers they are. A huge kudos to both of you. What were the key strategies or changes you’ve implemented to achieve this growth?

Jamie
So the major strategy that we took on board was definitely, again, once it was our communication, um, a big thing that we were noticing to start off with was, I can’t believe you’ve rocked up. We’ve had three guys out here and haven’t received a quote. One lady even said, you’ve rocked up, you’ve got the job. I didn’t even give her a price. 

Ange
Wow. 

Jamie
Um, straight away, I thought if I can, if I can nail this communication piece. If I can just be that guy that rocks up and sends the quote when I say I’m going to send the quote, then the business will just take care of itself and that has, that’s basically our main strategy of growing.

Ashley
I think, if I can add to that as well, so like in terms of some of the skills around qualifying questions and segmenting. That was a really big piece, I think, initially for us when we joined R&R, we came away from that event and really honed down on what our qualifying questions were, the A, B, C and D customers as well, which has obviously been great with the communication piece, but it’s allowed us to work within those segments and save ourselves a lot of time around the customers that might not be the customers for the business. 

Ange
It definitely makes a huge difference when you know your customer world, doesn’t it? And this reliability piece, I agree that regardless of the customer you work with, it is so fundamental to be reliable at all times. So that’s a great position to, to, for you to take and really own that market, right? So to be that roofing company for any of the customers that you’re working with. 

Jamie
Yeah, 100%. I think reliability isn’t just about rocking up on time. It’s about letting them know when you’re going to rock up. It’s about getting back to them and following up afterwards. There’s a lot of different things that come into the word reliable. Um, obviously reliable roofing is our name and, and that’s one of our core core values is just to be reliable and be that guy. That does keep the communication up, so that might just be a point of just a simple phone call to say, hey, look, a delivery is rocking up today. If the truck driver puts it in the wrong spot, give us a buzz back. We’ll have a team around there just to move it. Like, that might not mean anything to us, but to a customer that rocks up and sees an 8 meter length of gutter sitting in their driveway and they can’t pull in that night. Just a phone call is a game changer. 

 Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent. I’m going to chat about your team. And obviously you don’t grow from half a million to over 2 million, um, simply, and you obviously need a team. Now I’m just going to call the elephant in the room. And overall, most staff, the working roofing companies,  can I say it? So I apologize to anyone out there that’s a roofer, but I think everyone agrees. Like you’ve got these good business owners, but the people that come behind it can be really, really tough. So how have you adapted and got a team that’s switched on that gives incredible customer service and what hurdles have you faced around that?

Jamie
Yeah, you’re right, Andy. Roofers are roofers. Uh, we do have a good team though. We do have a good culture. I do live my values. I think that’s massive. It is crazy massive to get someone to follow your systems and get someone to talk to your customer the way you talk to the customer is just be that guy that actually talks to the customer the same way. I send all the text messages just like I expect my team to do it. So if I live it, I expect them to live it. We do make a lot of decisions on our values. A lot of our decisions and a lot of our toolbox meetings are around our values. So that basically weeds out the roofers that don’t want to live those values and also engages the ones that do. I know you’ve said before that when you start your trade, you go to trade school to learn how to be a roofer, and then you start a business and you have to get someone like a business coach to help you and a community around you to help you become a good business owner. But you don’t have that person. Well, I do. I’ve got Ash, but to tell you how to be a good person and a good leader. You can’t read a hundred, you can read a hundred books about leadership. That doesn’t make you a good leader. So it takes time and time and time and a lot of work to just live your values, make decisions on your values, and just keep leading by example. And then your team will follow. And that’s how we’ve done it.

 Andy
Mate. I love that. And the reason why I love it so much is there’s no doubt about it. Roofers are roofers, as you said. And there’s a lot of other trade businesses I talk to and we talk about getting their staff to have good customer service, getting their customers to sell like all these other things. Right. And the first response most people say is My tradies won’t do that. My tradies won’t do this. My tradies won’t do that. But what you’re actually saying is, well, you live and die by your terms and you, you tell the team exactly your values and what you expect and you hold them to those values. And if those values don’t come, if they work to those values, you just have a gentle word and say, listen, if you want to be here. You’ve got to be a part of these values, otherwise maybe it’s time to go somewhere else. And it doesn’t happen overnight, does it? But it does happen.

Jamie
Yeah, definitely it does happen.

Ashley
I think the part around, obviously, Jamie’s values, he touched on those. It has definitely been a challenge in terms of, you know, that repetitiveness. And that’s what I keep on saying to Jamie. You know, it’s not just one conversation. And everyone’s on board and, you know, following all of those values all the time. It is quite repetitive, but I think what we found is when we have those one on one conversations with the team and we explain the why around everything we do, and that’s a really fundamental thing I think for me as well, generally in my role, people are more likely to invest in what you’re selling if they understand why. And how they are an important piece of that, that puzzle. And then it’s just that reiteration of it over and over again and bringing it back to the why we do what we do that has been effective, but it’s still a long road to go, I think, to get to the end goal. 

Ange
And to your point though, the fact that the leader in the business is following every step about, you’ve got to walk the talk. So what I love is that you lead by example, Jamie, and it is repetitive, unfortunately, but people are people. They do need to constantly be reminded. It is important to actually have these values and communicating them consistently is great. Now, I’m just going to change tact a little bit because I do know that the two of you have mentioned in the past that you’ve created a system for customer communication. We’ve highlighted that this is really important and you have around 22 different touch points. Can you walk us through just even a couple of these touch points and how they’ve improved your customer satisfaction to help others out there understand what they are and why they’re so important? 

Jamie
Yeah, so 22 touch points is about an average of say, for a residential gutter replacement job. That might be from the first inquiry, um, whether that be a Facebook post or a Facebook message, uh, right through to following up on the invoice or following up on how that’s been on site, calling a customer to let them know a delivery is coming, telling a property manager we’ve contacted the tenant, telling an insurance builder that we’ll have a report to them in three days. Those little touch points just add to that communication piece. Um, and it was, it was very early in the piece that I actually didn’t realize how much we had done until I wrote them all down for one critical client flow as Systemology would say. And I went, wow, there’s 22 touch points. And if we get one of them wrong or if we missed them.

Ashley
It sometimes compromises that experience that we, we all speak about. It’s all about that customer experience, I think. So, you know, you drop one of those pieces and that’s all it takes. And the whole experience is potentially ruined. So. 

 Andy
We know that our customer service is big on everyone’s lips. If you do the right thing by the customers, they’ll come back time and time again. And it’s definitely not all around price. Hey, you’ve heard Andy say it a million times, know your numbers,  but um, I just know that you did adopt the profit first into your business. Can you explain how that’s impacted your business and changed your approach to managing your finances? 

Jamie
Yeah, Profit First, another game changer in our business. Uh, for those that don’t know, Profit First, it’s very similar to the Barefoot Investor. Um, just knowing, uh, where that money is in the buckets, sort of dividing the money out to the right buckets and just having them there for when you need them. So, um, each Tuesday, for, for example, I’ll put X percentage into my tax account and X percentage in my wages and superannuation  and stuff like that because at the end of the day, I’m a roofer as well. And if I see 70, 000 in my business account, I’m going to go get a new Milwaukee tool. I will have no qualms in buying that 2, 000 tool, but by the time I get back to the office with that tool, I’ve got a 40, 000 bus bill sitting there that I didn’t know was coming. And then all of a sudden I’m broke. So it is just being able to manage those cash flow problems and issues. Uh, now I can look at my bank accounts and go, Look, I’ve got that amount set away for tax. I’ve got that amount set away for superannuation. I’ve got that amount set away for tools. Uh, guess what? Yes, we can’t afford that new ladder this week. Bang, we’ve got a new ladder. So. 

Ange
Well, it’s also connected dots between not just having these business goals and business success and ensuring you’ve had enough finance to be able to cashflow the business exceptionally well. It’s also allowed for you to invest in personal goals, like buying this incredible camper van that you’re doing with family trips. 

 Andy
Oh, yes… Yeah. Yeah. 

Ange
Tell us about the camper. 

Jamie
Yeah. Cool. So, me and Ash, we obviously went to Fiji with you guys last year and we did the build, uh, build your future by design. 

Ashley
Life by design.

Jamie
And Ash had on her card, uh, she wants a caravan to spend some more time with the kids because that’s her part of life’s work life balance. And I had, well, if you’ve got a caravan, I need a big car to tow it. So we, uh, we, we did a bit of investment and, and, um, yeah, got a new car, a caravan and spent time with the kids. But again, the work life balance part is massive in running a business. A lot of people either lose their families or lose their business because they don’t work out that balance. I think the best part and I think the best thing that I’ve ever been told is it doesn’t have to be 60 hours on the business, 60 hours with your family. It just means, you know, if you are with the family for one or two hours out of those 60, that is the best one or two hours you can give your family. Um, the kids are not going to like you sitting in the same room with them for 60 hours, just on your phone. So if, if I can give them those two hours, or we can take them on a trip with, um, you know, the caravan, then that’s, that to me is what worked out well.

Ange
Create memories whilst they’re little, right? Because you literally only have so much time with them and then you’ll be empty nesters, which is kind of where we’re getting, we’re approaching. And we do reflect back and just think, gosh, you know, these opportunities for humans to spend time with their little people whilst you’ve got them. So I love that you connected actually on the same goal. When we did Life by Design in Fiji and the fact that the camper came out and that you needed a, like an amazing vehicle to tow it. So  do you also have any advice for others who are perhaps struggling with, you know, personal demands or business demands and, um, splitting time between the two?

Ashley
I think like Jamie said, and I, and you articulated it super well in Fiji and when you said time is finite. Like, and that, that probably is what really hit home for me on a totally different level. Um, and within it, you sort of said, who are your people? That’s what it’s about. You know, life does flash before your eyes and I don’t want us to regret the decisions we made. So I think, you know, prioritizing people, you know, over, over things and businesses and you can chase, there will always be a goal. There will always be a goal that’s bigger and better than the next. But I think The people in your life are the, are the, what you take away at the end, you know, the moments you had with them. So yeah, there’s zero regrets. Our financial planner wasn’t quite as happy, but what are you going to do?

 Andy
Well, you’re going to make your own cause, right? That’s why you’re in business. You live and die by your decisions. And I believe it was potentially the right decision. I think you’re looking at it now and it has been. So as you guys know, quite a few of our members are traveling around the country with their families at the moment and having a great time. And I know Ange’s talked about it’s a caravan. It’s bigger than a caravan. It’s like a semi trailer, isn’t it? Like it’s, it’s absolutely massive. But do you guys have any holidays lined up for yourselves?

Ashley
Yep. Um, we’re heading away with the kids in October, so we’re going to be taking them to MotoGP, Phillip Island, um, doing Grampians, Great Ocean Road on the way home. So we’re, we’re pretty excited about that. And so are the boys. And then maybe we’ll go to Ben’s. Yeah. 

 Andy
Oh, head over to WA as well. Huge. 

Ange
What an amazing experience that you’re going to have. It’s because, it’s not even just about going to the GP like in Melbourne, but just the trip, just literally tripping every day, like with the conversation in the car and the banter and you know, sharing the errands that they have to do, they are such great experiences for everyone. So I’m really excited that you have this opportunity with the family to literally go and live, live it. No regrets, as we said. So balance is important. 

 Andy
So I’m going to ask this other question right now, if you’re a tradie at the moment and you’re just struggling a little bit in business. Can you give them one piece of advice on what they should do? 

Jamie
Uh, definitely, uh, surround yourself with people that are supportive. Coaches, uh, mentors, other business owners, even if they’re at a lower level than you, um, can be so insightful. And of course, surround yourself with the wise. Life plays a big part in that support. 

 Andy
And what about you, Ashley?

Ashley
Um, you know, I think business bias, take a chance, you know, take a risk. Sometimes the biggest risks that you take are the ones that pay off the most. So yeah, people, you know, surround yourself in a community. I think that is something that has been fundamental, obviously for us. You know, we’ve got a great community around us. 

 Andy
So you definitely do. And you guys are superstars, as I’ve mentioned, and everyone loves hanging around you as well. Hey, on this segment, we love to play a little bit of a game. We’re going to ask three rapid fire questions. And you’re going to take around 10 to 20 seconds to answer them. Are you ready? 

Ashley
Yes. 

Jamie
Yeah, let’s go. 

Ange
Okay. Here we go with question one. Let’s start with you, Jamie. What is one strategy you use to start your day right? 

Jamie
A new strategy that I’ve actually taken up is silence while driving to work. I turn the podcast on, the radio on. It’s about a 30 minute drive from my house to the workshop. And it just allows me to sort of meditate while I’m driving, obviously keeping my eyes on the road, but just getting all my entrepreneurial thoughts running, getting everything I need to get out of the day running. And by the time I get to work, I’ve got a list on the back of my hand. I know exactly what I want to do for the day. And I hit the ground running.

 Andy
I love that because sometimes people think you’ve got to listen. You could sometimes, the best thing is you’re in your own space in silence. So that is great. I’m going to ask you one, Ash, what’s something that has made you smile recently?

Ashley
I smile a lot. Um, I get the opportunity to actually support people on a daily basis in the disability employment space. So something that’s made me smile recently is being able to effectively help them get into sustainable employment. So that’s always something to smile about. 

Ange
Absolutely. That’s amazing. All right. So question three, this one’s for you, Jamie. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received? 

Jamie
Yeah, the best piece of advice I’ve ever received and I live it out on a daily basis is Rome wasn’t built in a day. Just take little steps at a time. As a business owner, you want the biggest and the best and you want to do it straight away. Just, uh, and as you say, and chase one rabbit or two rabbits, not six rabbits, because you won’t catch any if you chase six. 

Ange
Gotta just focus on single, get that one single project finished. And you’re right, small steps lead to massive results. So great response. Ash, what’s one piece of advice you’ve ever received?

Ashley
I think a really big piece of advice in my earlier days, supporting and managing, leading people was to be neutral. That was a fundamental turning point in my people management piece. When you’re managing people, there’s so many different challenges that come along on a daily basis, lots of different opinions. It’s just being really neutral in your approach when supporting people, supportive, open communication, but keeping it neutral and not, you know, feeding into any kind of hysteria or challenges. You just keep it neutral.

Ange
What’s really important in that response is that humans tend to internalize a lot of situations and react very quickly instead of catching themselves and actually thinking about the person in front of them. And you just don’t know what’s going on with them, what’s happened behind the scenes or on a day to day basis, or even their background or culture or the impact. So it’s a really important sentence to say, just stop, take a breath. Don’t respond so quickly and don’t think about yourself. Think about that other human. So great piece of advice to be able to share. 

 Andy
A massive Thank you both for being on The Tradie Show today. And we really appreciate you too. 

Ange
Absolutely. We love having both of you a part of the Lifestyle Tradie community, not just sharing your journey, but sharing your challenges, sharing your success stories. And we truthfully wish you continued success in your business because as you know, we’re always still learning and growing, uh, and we can’t wait to hang out with you at our next member event. Thanks so much for being with us on The Tradie Show. 

Ashley
Thanks guys. 

Jamie
Yeah, thanks guys. Thanks for all the support. 

 Andy
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