Building Success: From Struggles to Awards with Hill House Constructions

Ange
They run a building company in Toowoomba, and they’re passionate about historic architecture, traditional timber homes, Queenslanders, and colonial history. And just looking at all the work they’ve done, it’s gorgeous. Now, before we chat with them, remember to be good today, Andy. 

Andy
What do you mean by good? I’m always good at helping tradies grow their business. And if they need a kick up the butt, then that’s what I’m going to do. 

Ange
Rightio. Let’s not scare them though. All right. 

Andy
No, no, they don’t need to kick up the butt these two, they are on fire. So let’s get on with the show. You’re listening to The Tradie Show. This is the podcast for trade businesses and contracting bosses like you who want to lead with confidence, make more profit, and create a better lifestyle. 

Ange
We’re your hosts, Andy and Angela Smith, husband & wife team and co-founders of Lifestyle Tradie. Are you ready to have some fun? 

Andy
Hell yeah!  All right, let’s cut to the chase. When was the last time your business worked for you instead of running you into the ground? If you’re sitting there thinking, yep, that’s me, then we need to talk. I’m Andy Smith and I’ve been where you are. Long hours, cashflow, nightmares, no control. Does any of these sound familiar? But here’s the thing, you don’t have to keep living like this. There’s a way out and it starts with a game plan call. It’s just 10 minutes. We’re going to identify the bottlenecks holding your business back and map out a clear, straightforward plan to get you moving forward. Think of it as your shortcut to make more profit, more control, and more time to actually enjoy your life. And if you’re stuck with cash flow issues, team headaches, or just feel like you’re drowning in endless work, well guess what? I’ve got your back. So here’s what you need to do. Head to lifestyletradie.com.au. Hit the big green Gameplan Call button or just scroll down on your phone. Listen, if a 10 minute call could save you hours of headaches and give you a real shot at turning 2025 into a breakthrough year, why wouldn’t you take it? Make the move. Let’s turn things around and get your business working for you, not against you. Hell yeah!

So our guest selected for today’s show is James and Courtney from Hill House Constructions, a residential building company in Toowoomba in Southeast Queensland. 

Ange
James and Courtney Hill joined Lifestyle Tradie almost a year ago now, and we love having them as a part of our community. They’re super eager to learn and have already leveled up their business.

Andy
Interesting to know Courtney dragged James kicking and screaming along to one of our events in Brisbane and now here we are. Welcome to The Tradie Show guys and it’s great to have you both here. 

Courtney
Thank you. 

James
G’day guys. Thanks for having us.

Andy
So to set the scene, can you tell us a little bit more about your business with what you do, how long you’ve been operating and what does your team look like? 

James
Yeah. So we are a building and construction business. Uh, we operate around Toowoomba Queensland, which is about an hour and a half west of Brisbane. We specialize in renovations and extensions, character homes, Queensland timber homes, typical cottages is what we like to do. Yeah. We’ve been in business for three and a half years. Um, so we’re only really quite young still. Our core team is just Courtney and I. 

Andy
Wow. 

James
It’s a husband and wife team. 

Andy
Yeah. And that’s fantastic. A great way to start. 

James
Yeah. However we do, so I like to hire subbies to help me on the tools as I need them. Yep. But it’s really just me juggling project management and work at the moment. 

Andy
Fantastic. Fantastic. 

Ange
So I’d love to hear your take on what life was like before you guys actually joined Lifestyle Tradie.

Courtney
So when, uh, we first were looking for direction, I suppose, I was really lost and I actually found Your book, Ange. I was looking for wives in the industry. I could really say that James was kind of naive and just kind of making it happen, even though he didn’t really know what he was doing. Yes, I did drag him kicking and screaming to Brisbane.

Andy
I love that. I love that. 

Courtney
Very true. We loved the live event. We actually did two of them before we signed up. The first one was just us kind of getting an idea of what Lifestyle Tradie was. We learnt a heap and we took all of that on board and implemented what we could. At the time we had one subbie who was like our main guy. He actually left us to go more permanent work with someone else. And that was right before we went to the second live event. And we kind of had like a bit of a kick in the guts. It was like, Oh, we’ve implemented all this stuff. We thought we were doing really great. Now we’re not doing so great. And so that was kind of where we went, we needed help. We need some advice and we need direction. Yeah. 

Andy
So you came to the first event kicking and screaming, James. And then hopefully you left that event going. Actually, Andy’s not really a dickhead. And he’s not a bad guy. Andy and Ange. They hit the points that we probably need, and did that first one, how did it change your mindset when you saw that come on that first day? Because I see it constantly. People come in, they’ve got their arms crossed, they don’t want to be there. They’re like, this is going to be rubbish. And they walk out going, Oh my God, there’s so much in business I don’t know. How did you feel James? 

James
Yeah, you couldn’t have said better. I did go to Brisbane, uh, everyone says reluctantly, but I remember driving at 6 am to get there. I was, I was, I was pretty excited to get there.  But no, um, you are right. When I left Brisbane, uh, after the first session, I could see just how sh*t the business really was going.  So I really did leave thinking we have some work to do. If we really want to make this thing work, we have to pick up our socks here. And everything you said pretty much just resonated with me from that day. And as Courtney said, we really went home and the whole way home, which is to our drive, we talked and shared about all of your really amazing points and how we can use them to help us get our business going. And that’s why I think we started listening to your podcasts. And things like that, really learning as much as we could before we dived into the second live events. And that’s when we signed up. 

Andy
Yeah. So you went from a business where it was just the two of you started out sort of together like, let’s do it as a team. It sounds all fun and exciting, doesn’t until it’s not. And we’ve all been there. We’ve all been there. Courtney’s brought you kicking and screaming and changed your mindset. And you changed a few things, came to this second event. And I still remember the second event more than the first event. To be honest, I think you were sort of hiding up in the back corner, maybe in the first event, the second event, there were hands being raised, you’re talking like I can remember the smiles. Courtney’s got a beautiful laugh. I can remember that part of it. And, um, and then all of a sudden it’s like, yeah, we are ready. We are ready to go. And I, and I love that. I love seeing that you are so passionate. So we’re talking nearly a year on, so you’re still fairly new to Lifestyle Tradie, but what is your business looking like now? What has changed? What have been the biggest impacts that have happened in the last 12 months? 

James
Yeah. So I’ll be the first one to say that our business is now vastly different. Yeah. For starters, it’s far more systemized. It’s far more organized. I mean, a big factor of that has been running a client journey or a client flow checklist. And that’s a really big point that we learned from you guys, because that has led to us having bigger jobs, which means bigger dollar values, bigger timelines, bigger profit margins. And all of that has also led to us winning multiple national awards. 

Andy
Yes, you guys have. 

Ange
Incredible.

James
So I think what else has changed is So before joining Lifestyle Tradie, I would work 18 hour a days, I would be in the office every night because I’d be working like on tools, trying to call every single job I could get because obviously you’re young and you don’t know when you’re better. After joining Lifestyle Tradie and I guess getting a sense of direction of what jobs you wanted to take on or the avatars or all of that stuff. I started to prioritize the work I wanted to do. So I wasn’t looking at every single job wasting my time. I was looking at the jobs I really wanted and what that brought me was not just the work I wanted to do, but more freedom in the sense that I, it didn’t take as long to quit these jobs because you know, I wasn’t looking at 50 jobs. I was looking at maybe five or 10 and that meant that rather than working from 7 pm till 11 pm every night after the kids went to bed, it was working from 7 till 5, and then having the night off or having the night to do something else. 

Andy
And hang out with your beautiful wife and talk about what an amazing day you’ve had. 

James
Absolutely.  

Ange
Well, we all know that owning your own trade business, It, you kind of never stop thinking about business, right? Like you never really switch off. So it is important even when you’re, how old are your kids now? 

James
Five and three. 

Ange
Yeah. So like they’re super young. And although they’re not going to remember if dad is sitting or mom is sitting in an office at nighttime, to be fair, there will be a moment where there is, and it is important to be around. But what’s cool is that you have actually carved out some time so that you actually are around them like on certain nights throughout the week instead of being completely absent because who wants to live life like that? That’s not the reason we signed up to have our own business. 

Courtney
We’ve definitely put rules, I think, around like weekends, a family. We’ll go camping or we’ll, we’ll take the kids out somewhere and do stuff. Like there’s probably more rules and structure around. This is work time. This is family time. Yeah. 

Andy
It was funny. I was having a chat with, um, some tradies today that are joining Lifestyle Tradie and we’re just talking about his kids and his aid and their ages. And he said to me, and this is something I’ve talked about too, he goes, My kids are around three and he said, I’ve got three years to get this business right. Because after then they’re going to remember stuff. And I don’t want them to remember that dad’s never around, never around, dad and mom are fighting because dad’s got the shits every day. Like it was just when he was saying it, I’m like, Hallelujah, get it brother. Let’s make it work. Do it, do it early, do it early and get it crackin. 

Ange
Absolutely. So I know you two have come with some questions today. So let’s dive into that. What’s the first thing you actually feel you need help with? 

James
So my first question is relaying around whether a client is a good client and how can you tell they’re a good client? My example for that is we’ve had a job where the client started to turn out, well, when I first met them, they were actually really good clients in my opinion. Now, I’m not a judge of character, but they were nice to get along with. They were easy to talk to. They were an older couple. They lived in a very nice area of town. So you could probably tell that they, you know, were looking at doing a large scale renovation and it was ticking all of the boxes. But as the job went along, um, and issues started to arise, issues that normally we can solve pretty easily, but ones that weren’t quite as easy to solve, major red flags start popping up. My question is, how do I know a client is a good client from the get go so I don’t find myself in these situations? 

Andy
Yeah. That is an incredible question. So I’m going to do my best to answer this. I, I think we first off want to just touch on that no one really knows how good a client is until you’re working with them for a long time. And, and if you’re doing a maintenance job, that’s, you know, an hour, a day, a week, you can move on pretty quick, but in the building industry, you could be there for months or even years, depending on what’s going on. Right? So that’s a bit of a killer. The other thing I want to point out as well is, sometimes it’s not you, sometimes it’s them and there’s nothing you can do. And just like that whole iceberg, you can see a customer and that they’re at that top. You only see the top of the iceberg sitting out of the water. You don’t know what’s going on in their world. Marriage problems, kids problems, sicknesses within the family, people die. Like there’s so many things that can come in there, but I will say this. It’s all about getting them set up the right way from the very start. And, and from what you’re saying and what I know about you guys, you are a pretty good judge of custom. You’re a good judge of character. Sorry. So I think you had a pretty good feeling going into this. Is that right? 

James
I did. 

Andy
Yeah. So I suppose if you’re doing some of these bigger jobs, stalk them on Facebook, see if you know any friends. Like seriously, see if you can find out some info, be a bit of a detective, find out what’s around. You’re a long time working for a bad customer when you’re a builder, right? So find out what people say, are they easy to work with, hard to work with? That’s certainly something. Obviously you put a lot of time and effort into them at the start. And I think the biggest thing for me, you hear me say it all the time, is make sure there’s a very clear expectation of exactly what is going to be done and when. Now we can all have challenges and things can change, but make them understand the clear expectations. And also remember, and I think this is a massive one for builders is when you verbally talk to each other, different people hear different things. So you could say one thing. They’re hearing something totally different. So everything should be in writing. Everything should be detailed. You should go through with them so they know exactly where they are and what to expect. So my question, I’ve still got more to answer on that, but my question to you is, did you go down that path? Did you have those clear expectations?

James
Yeah, absolutely. So every job I do is always under a contract. It’s always to a very specific, very black and white scope of works. So there is no gray area. Yeah. And that’s why it hit me so hard with these certain clients because I thought I had been doing everything to the letter, crossing my T’s, dotting my I’s, and yet I still found this problem arose even though I tried to avoid it as best I could.

Andy
So the next thing I want to touch on is if there is a problem, was a problem with you, was a problem with your subbies? What was it? 

James
So it was a problem with my subbies. 

Andy
Your subbies. Okay. So it wasn’t even a direct problem to you. So I suppose. When there are clear expectations, you can show them the contract and you can sit down and whatever. But if they don’t feel like, I’m not saying you did this, but if they don’t feel like they’re getting heard properly, or they don’t feel like the resolution is happening correctly, all of a sudden they doubt everything, it doesn’t matter how good you were beforehand. And some people go down this downward spiral and they can go down really, really fast and they can turn on you, you know, and then they start talking to their friends and they go, Oh my God, that’s not good. And then I talked to someone and all of a sudden it’s like a hornet’s nest and they just build and build and build. And then all of a sudden they’re exploding. So. Do you feel like you dealt with it as fast as you possibly could, or was it a drawn out process in the end? 

James
So I tried to act as fast as I could to help them with the issues that we had found on site. 

Andy
Yes. 

James
Going through, uh, the correct pathways to make sure that this was rectified correctly. It still takes time, but trying to update them on every step along the way, it was all I could really do. But unfortunately, because you can’t just find the trade the day after to come back and to do something else is really hard, especially on Christmas. So there was a time of waiting, unfortunately.

Andy
Yeah. And that’s where it probably blew up a bit and you can be the best negotiator in the world, but that was out of your hands. But the owners, all I see is we contracted you, you’re the builder and you need to fix it now. And you’re like, well, hang on. I’ve got to go by the letter of the law and go down the right path to get this contractor to come back and fix it. And I think you mentioned the customers had a massive blow up with that contractor. So the contractor pretty much told them to jam it, right? 

James
Pretty well. 

Andy
And then you’ll be left dealing with all the sh*t and all the legal and everything that happens after that. So all I can say here is I wish I could tell you who the ideal customer is every single time. It’s just about dealing with it the right way. And I feel like you have dealt with this the right way, the best way that you could. And I know that everyone gets a hunch at the start of the job. Just make sure when you get that hunch, you really dive deeper, find out more about them, and then go from there.

James
Absolutely. That leads me into my second question, which is obviously because having a tough experience with the client, it leads me into my next question, which is, see, we love doing timber homes and specializing in Queensland style homes because that’s my jam. But we often come up with the question to ourselves of whether it’s better to work for a really good client, even though it’s not the work you want to do, or doing a beautiful home because you love the work, but the clients aren’t A-grade clients. And we want to know what your advice is or what your opinion on what you would do. 

Andy
Another cracking question. Jeez, you’re bringing them today.

Ange
I know. 

Andy
Jesus. Okay. So my personal opinion is when you work, you want to work for the style of work That you enjoy because that’s what brings you the joy of your day to day. But there’s also a part of business where you’re going to go where, where are you making the money? Where are you spending the least amount of time and making the most profit? And, you know, we’re all in business to have a lifestyle. We’re all in business to make money, but we’re all in business to have fun as well. Right? So sometimes there are clients or types of work you may do where you make a massive amount of money, really good profit, but you hate the work and most people hate the work and that’s why you can charge so much for that work, right? And you’ve got to weigh up, do you want to do that work for the profit or you don’t? And that’s an individual thing, but I will point this out. I feel like when you specialize in a certain niche and you want to be known as you said, old homes, renovations, timber restorations. It takes so much time and money to do that style of work correctly. Is that right? 

James
Yes, that’s right. It takes a lot longer.

Andy
Yeah. And, at the end of it, you can get a really nice job that everyone loves, but if it’s taken 10 times longer than doing it the way you can do it these days, people don’t want to pay that money. And that’s the difference. So I think you’ve got to be very, very clear at the start on how long this is going to take and why. And what kind of look are you looking for? But when you’re trying to work on a look, and you can’t see it in a glossy magazine because it’s different from the average house, the customer’s expectations versus your expectations versus how much you’re going to say is a real big part, right?

Ange
So I want to ask you a question. Because you’re saying that the type of work you love is these Queenslander timber homes because of where you live. Is there a lot of potential work like that around you so that you could niche? 

Courtney
Yeah, there is. Yeah. Toowoomba, Toowoomba is full of old colonial style homes. 

Ange
Yeah. And when you think about the avatar, do they actually have money? like an A-grade customer having money willing to spend it with you or just willing to spend it to upkeep their house and make them beautiful? 

Courtney
I think the suburbs that we try to push for are much more like the higher demographic. There’s a lot more in other areas of town, but they’re much more of a lower demographic. We do try to push towards a more specific area, which we know that’s where those people are. 

Ange
Yeah. Perfect. So the way I would answer this is: If that is what you love to do, I know you’ve only been in business for three years, but long term, we want to ensure that you really have owned this niche in your geographic area. So I do think, in my opinion, it is important, of course, to prioritize this style of work over and above you now just doing work that is some modern house that you really don’t enjoy just because the customer you like and it’s profitable work. So although yes, that is important for you to make money. And especially if your jobs, like you were saying, some jobs are only a few weeks, maybe months or whatever. And you think, Oh, you know what? I don’t have this other work right now. I’m just going to say yes to this thing. But we definitely need this ratio balance that we’re eventually always prioritizing this other work that you know is profitable anyway in the style of work you love. And we need to be really showcasing that across all of your marketing. So all your visuals from Instagram, your website, like everything, any promotional stuff you do, you really need to own this niche because over the course of time, your geographic area, when they go to actually look at renovating their property or doing any sort of upkeep in this style of home. You need to stand head and shoulders above everybody else and this will just come with time. So I would definitely be saying that your priority of your work is to ensure that you love wholeheartedly going to work every single day and knowing the work is profitable because they’re A-grade clients too and will always pay their bills. But you’re going to have to, at the beginning, perhaps, if you don’t have that presence yet specifically to own that market, we’re just going to have to pick up these other little jobs if you have to, just to, you know, tick things along. But even short term slash long term, you want to go to work loving what you do every day. And you know, you can own this niche because you’re really, really good at it. 

Courtney
Yep. That’s great. 

James
That was a fantastic answer. Thank you, Andrew. 

Ange
You’re welcome. 

James
So my next question is about quoting. So I remember talking to you guys in the live events about being able to quote jobs faster, to be able to do things more efficiently. I currently use BuildExact, which is my software. Um, it has the ability to write algorithms and sums to be able to accurately, but still have an educated guess on what trades prices are. I like to do black and white contracts. So there’s no gray area at all. There’s no provisional sums. Every trade has a Black and white price that they agree to. Each trade has a subcontractor agreement contract in place. But what I find is that all of my potential leads I have coming in, I’m able to quite enter my carpentry side quite quickly. But it’s the other trades who I send their takeoff lists and things to that take so long to get back to me that I end up losing these jobs because I just can’t return the quote in time. So what I find I do is on BuildExact, I can use previous jobs and previous numbers to still give an educated guess on their prices. However, I found out recently that I was quoting a job and what I had allowed for my electrician was actually 10 grand less than what their quote came back at. So I’m worried that if I do make all these allowances, all these provisional sums, and I present that to the client as a tender and they accept the job, I’m going to pretty much be working for nothing because I haven’t quoted the right thing. So my question is this, how do I win these quotes? And be able to quote faster while, well, well, to be able to quite accurately while not having the trades get back to me fast enough. 

Andy
Yeah. So firstly, the trades that are working for you obviously don’t work with Lifestyle Tradies. 

Ange
I was about to say the same thing. They need to be so much faster for your industry. 

Andy
I personally think you’ve got to set your ground rules. You cannot be saying an electrician is going to quote 80 grand here when they haven’t given you a quote. And although, you know, let’s go back before COVID. A lot of people could go, it’s pretty standard. Times have changed so much. Materials have changed so much. Expenses of staff have changed so much. You just don’t know what these tradies are going to give you next. And we also know that the more times they work with you, they’re going to try and squeeze the end. They’re going to be putting a bit more on it. If they can, they want to try and make as much as they can as well. So every business owner is out there and I, and I think that’s fair. Everyone wants to make the most they can, um, and do a top quality job. What are your expectations for them? I’d be saying, and I know you you’re loyal and no doubt you’d like these guys, but if they’re not getting back to you on time, you need to start saying, Hey guys, I’m going to start sending you these jobs, but if you’re not getting back to me within a set timeframe, I’m going to start sending him to some other trades. And then what I’ll do is I’ll have to compare quotes and then go from there and they won’t like that. But what you need to do is lay the letter of the law down at the start. And just say to them, when I give you a quote, you’ve got to respond in a certain amount of time. Do you actually give them a certain amount of time?

James
At the moment, I haven’t been, no. 

Andy
Well, it’s anything in life. If you say, I need this done here. Yeah, no worries, man. I’ll do that for you. And then everything else is a priority because there’s no, you haven’t given them a timeline. You need to actually, I would, I’d be ringing your trade and say, Hey, I’m a growing company. Do you guys like working for me? I feel like we all work well together. Yeah, it’s great. Well, I’m going to have to have some clear expectations. This is what is happening. I’m losing work at the moment because you guys aren’t getting back to me on time. And I understand everyone, it’s hard running a business. I get that. But if you guys don’t get back to me this time, I’m going to have to start spreading the love to get quotes from other people. And I don’t want to do that. I want to work with you. So I’m going to put a timeframe of this on you. I’m going to give you whatever you think is fair and say, I need it by this date, otherwise I’m looking somewhere else.

James
Yep. Should I be sending it to other trades as well, even though, let’s say I send it to an electrician and I give them two weeks, I need this quote back in two weeks. Should I be sending it to a second or a third electrician regardless, even though the first electrician is my preferred electrician?

Andy
Personally, you know, I love the relationships with builders and trades. And, and I don’t think any tradie plumber, electrician, whoever that works for a builder wants to feel like they’re always under that pressure. You know, it’s always about money. It’s, it’s gotta be about, um, how you all work together, mates, and sometimes they’ll win on jobs. Sometimes they may not win as much on jobs. And it’s a relationship you build. And I think most people that work for builders, that’s a relationship. If you’re very clear from the start and say, Hey guys, this is what’s happening to me. I’m losing work, which is actually really affecting you. I’m going to give you two weeks. If you can’t get it done in two weeks, I’m going somewhere, I’m going to look somewhere else. And then all future quotes, I’m going to go out to three people. That’ll definitely get them moving. 

Courtney
So pretty much do whatever we can to make sure we’re always doing our black and white quotes. Yes. Rather than James doing guesses.

Ange
Communication fits everything, and as we know, is always key. Whether that’s communication with your partner, with your team, your subbies, with your customer, that clear communication and setting those boundaries is critical. So therefore, as Andy said, to set those parameters with an open conversation to say, this is how I work, we’ve been working really well together, is the perfect stepping stone so that they know the rules, so that you then potentially change it moving forward. So communication, you’re doing, you’re doing the right thing with the communication with the customer. We now need to open these lines of communication up with your subbies so that you’re working with the ones that you choose to work with because you love how they work well with you. 

Andy
I think I just finished this.  As a builder, if I’m a builder, I’m not a builder, but if I’m a builder, I want amazing trades that work very well with us. So the job flows really quickly and we all make money. 

Ange
Agreed.

Andy
So I don’t look, if a plumber gives me a quote of 20 grand, another one’s 18 grand and another one’s 22 and another one’s 15, if you get four quotes, your normal plumber won’t always be the cheapest. But when you’ve worked with a guy for two years, four years, six years, 10 years, You know each other so well that the jobs would run smoother. So if there’s a difference of two grand, four grand, five grand, or even 10 grand, sometimes as a beauty, you’ll look at that and go, but he’s so freaking good. And the stress and the drama this other punter will do. Yes, he’s cheaper. It’s just not worth my while. And I’ve been chatting with a few tradies about this recently. He’d been working with a builder for eight years. He said to me, I gave a price. Another guy was two grand cheaper. And I said, I guarantee you at the end of that job, mate, he’s going to know that that two grand going with that person was not worth it when he’s worked with you for so long.

Courtney
A hundred percent. Yup. 

Ange
I think your tradies would actually appreciate these open conversations to be honest. I think over the course of time, especially when you start showcasing that I’m trying to get into this style of work, we do work well together, I would love this relationship to continue. The more positive language you say out loud, strikes their ego. I love the way you work. I love the way that you’re so efficient and that I give you enough time so that you know when to be back in and you’re always there on time. I’m like, these conversations are so critical. And then as you grow as a business, they actually want to work with you. You are their lifeblood so that they actually have additional work.

Courtney
When you first started with Dr. Drip, what did your role look like? I know that you came from marketing with the corporate world.  What did that look like when you transitioned into Dr. Drip?

Ange
Oh, interesting question.  Yes, so my background was marketing. It was hospitality, actually, and then marketing. Interesting that you bring skill sets with you along the way from your career that can actually be applied to trade, even though you might come into this industry and go, Oh my gosh, I’ve actually got nothing to share or to give. It’s actually not true. So, what did I do when I first came in? Andy was very sorted with Dr. Drip. He had a team of five, I think, when I first started. And his idea was to actually take over the marketing. It was also administration to a certain degree. It was like insurance and all kinds of that background kind of thing. Andy always answered all the calls anyway and dispatched the boys. I mean, obviously we had a maintenance plumbing company, so it’s obviously a little bit different to you. But Andy was really hands on like that, he worked on the tools, but he was also answering calls and dealing with all the customers. I didn’t have to do any of that. So when you think about a business, I was kind of the everything else behind the scenes. I didn’t do bookkeeping or accounting. I actually did start doing that way back in a day of a ledger. Yes, it’s very old. Um, but very quickly, Andy and I both worked out I’m not the right person for that. And we got a bookkeeper very fast. Because for us in our industry, someone needed to touch our books to ensure that they were kept clean pretty much on a day to day basis. So I think our bookkeeper at the beginning was maybe working two days on the business. So I was doing more, pretty much anything else, helping Andy with systems and kind of the flow of work. Like I said, insurances and whatnot and marketing. So that’s kind of where I really came in. 

Courtney
So that leads me into trying to work out transitioning from my old career,  which is very different to the construction industry.

Ange
Which is? What was your past?

Courtney
I was a hairdresser and makeup artist for over 10 years. I worked up into management in my role and I would train the apprentices. We don’t have apprentices, we don’t have staff, so I’m finding that I have no idea what I’m good at now. I think, you know, having kids, going through the motherhood role and then trying to be part of the business. Do you have any tips on how I can define what my maybe strengths and weaknesses are and how that can relate into an actual role within the business?

Ange
One thing I’ll be really clear about is you are doing a very important role, which is rearing those kids. 

Courtney
Thank you. 

Ange
When you take on that position and you are, let’s call it the stay home mom, and you’re on the side trying to help with this business, nobody understands what it is you actually do. So therefore, even your friends, your family, if something has to get done, pick this up for mom, go to the pharmacy for this thing. Everyone calls you to do it because they actually think you’re just sitting on your hands and, you know, they think you’re playing tennis or something. God only knows what they think we’re doing. Um, so your job looking after those children is really, really important. And what I love is that you are injected inside this business and because you are so invested in the two of you doing such a good job with this business, I can only imagine even just during the day to day and the table talk at night time, James has someone to talk to about what’s gone on in his day. And because you’re a people person, you can help him very much with what you say then and maybe you should say this and, and he can unpack what you’ve suggested to be able to go back and actually apply. So, your skill set, what you have brought from an industry of dealing with humans, is critically important. Because this now transcends to communication in general with, as I mentioned before, every tradie that you deal with, the contractors, your partners, the customers that you have. I’m sure you were very invested in working out this customer journey with regards to your business with James, because you have an insight as to who it is you work with, the avatar, who you can actually see life through their eyes and now help together with James unpack, well, we should do this or say that at this point because that’s what’s important to them. So that’d be my first sentence about that. So you have brought an incredible skill set over, uh, that is definitely going to make a huge difference with regards to this business. When you first start thinking about, well, what am I, what could I do inside this business? And how do I find my strengths to define my role? I would firstly start looking at an organizational structure just so that you can kind of see functions inside a business. And even though your names are on everything, you know, you divide this now by marketing or sales activity or accounting or bookkeeping, bane on the tools, booking in those jobs. When you start looking at, um, functions of a business, your names are going to be across everything. And maybe there’s a couple of things that have your name solely on it. So, I would imagine your name, Courtney, is on, say, the marketing activity, even though James has to capture certain images whilst he’s out on the tools for you, you know how to apply. And because you’re part of Lifestyle Tradie, And the fact that the two of you come together, that’s even more important. You know, you’ve been taught how to apply the EPIC formula with regards to social media. And so you are armed with how to actually do certain aspects of your role really, really well and how to find your strengths. I’d be saying you probably already know what you love doing. And so therefore that is something you should embrace. You’re really good at the marketing side and you do love doing that kind of thing. Um, there’s always going to be tasks you don’t enjoy that you just have to do like all of us. Um, like probably looking at your insurances and that kind of stuff that those are things you’re going to have to pick up. But to me, all of these things that actually have to happen with regards to getting your business model right, really do end up within an organizational structure so that you can actually understand what actually has to happen at each time.

Andy
Courtney, you’ve been an absolute superstar after over that 12 months and the amount of stuff that you have done, don’t ever doubt how much you’ve done. Plus kids, plus family, plus looking after James, plus moving into a brand new house that you’ve bought. Like there’s been a lot going on. So this is what happens when you’re a busy person. You’ve got to ask another busy person, you know, what’s the old saying? It says, if you want something done, ask a busy person because the busy people always think they’re not doing enough.

Ange
How did you win those awards, Courtney? 

Andy
Yeah, exactly. 

Ange
Like no one, you, you can’t just write that stuff. It’s like, this is you articulating the truth about what’s going on inside the, inside your business and for a building business to actually win those awards, that is going to set you up head and shoulders above every other builder in your niche, in your geographic area. That is power. 

Andy
And I think the organizational chart, what Ange said, in your business and doing those roles is exactly what you need now. So you can work out exactly the area that you want to work in. And there might be some areas you don’t want to work in, but it’s got to be done and then set the plan and the goals and just keep going forward. When people question this, sometimes they’ve just lost a little bit of direction. It’s just about going back in, resetting, and I’m assuming that’s happened here, resetting, and you’re a superstar. You get heaps done. I’ve seen it. 

Ange
And something like you might, when you do that organizational structure, if you haven’t already, like bookkeeping and accounting as an example, I mean, you’re an accountant, obviously you don’t have that in your past, but as a bookkeeper, you go straight away. Well, I’m just going to delegate that, outsource that stuff. So this is where it makes it far easier to go. I’ll hold onto that, James, you hold onto that and we’re going to outsource the rest. 

Courtney
Cool. Okay. Thank you. That’s good. 

James
My last question. So I really struggle with, um, where the business is now versus where I want the business to be versus having time to actually live my own life. So every night I lie in bed and I get this gut wrenching feeling that I should be doing more, that I should be doing better. I look at other businesses and look at my friends and family and think, If I was in the office right now doing work, how much more ahead could I be than what I would be if I was just lying here in bed beside Courtney? How much more successful could this be? How much more money would I have? So on and so forth. So my question revolves around the guilt of knowing whether I’m doing enough and how to stop myself from thinking about work when I’m not at work. 

Andy
Yeah. Great question. I just want to start with, your wealth is your health. So you need to make sure you’re giving yourself time out to live and be a family. So that’s my first one. The second one lying in bed thinking, Oh my God, there’s so many more things I could be doing. And would I be a bit of a business owner if I did? That’s every single tradie listening to this podcast right now saying the same thing. And, and some of those listening right now are going, I just can’t work any harder. And some of them are sitting there going, shit, I spent a lot of time on Netflix. So you’re, you know, firstly, what I want to say to you is every single person can put as much time as they want to put into the business. And there’s no two ways about it. The more time you put into it, the better the business will be. If you want to be a better AFL player or a rugby league player or a football or soccer player, the people that put in the hardest work are the ones that really rise to the top. So we know that in life, we know that you’ve got to keep putting in the hard yards. We get it. But there’s got to be a level of what you really want and how hard do you want to push yourself? I’d always talk back to Dr. Drip when I first started. I worked seven days a week, day and night for two years straight. Now there was a reason for that because I’d already traveled around Australia for 13 months. I’d traveled to America and Canada and parts of the world for another 12 months. So I felt like my time was ready and I was happy to put that time in. In a world of mental health, you’ve got to make sure you look after yourself first. In a world where there’s so much pressure, money, family, you name it, there’s pressure everywhere, you’ve got to find hobbies that take you away from always thinking about business. For me, I can be having the worst day in the world. I go to the gym, I train at the gym, I walk out feeling amazing and I don’t think about work anywhere else. My life is different now to when I was a full time tradie business owner. There’s no doubt about that where you’re thinking 24/7. I understand that you’ve just got to set some guidelines and some rules around what you think is healthy and what you physically can do. And I think it’s a James and Courtney question. And where is the family time coming in? Because whatever decision you make as a family, as a partner, The rewards are for everyone. Even the most elite athletes in the world cannot drive 365 days a year. They always got time out. That’s why seasons might go for nine months and then they’ve got a three month break in the off season. So don’t be too hard on yourselves. Find a hobby that really Clears your head and make sure you two make the decision that’s right for you and the family around business that should come first. 

Ange
And structure to add to that is going to be absolutely critical. So if that is so that both of you know that if Courtney on a Tuesday morning at, I don’t know, 8 o’clock goes and does Pilates and James now has the children that you know that that’s her gig every Tuesday or vice versa. So when your children are little, you’re going through a, what I call phase, a certain phase of life. And these phases change all the time. And it is important to be present while these, while you have your kids around, because you know, we’re at a stage where at 18 and 15 that they’re really not around at all anymore. And it goes so quickly. But structure now for you is going to be so important so that you actually have these times for yourself. How you start your day right is absolutely critical. So you set yourself up well, how you finish that day. Like Andy said, don’t be on things like Netflix or whatever, which I’m sure you’re not because you haven’t got time to do that. But you know, we do unfortunately think about business all the time. And aside from that, I love that you’re so driven to want to do well because that’s what’s going to see you succeed. You’ve reached out for people to help you. You have an incredible, the two of you together are a powerhouse. You’re both so invested, but it is important to have harmony in your life and you need to find what works for you best.

James
No, I thank you for your advice. 

Andy
Okay, so what we’re going to do now is we’re going to get into a segment. It’s called Rapid Fire, where I’m going to ask you three questions, one by one, and I want you to give your best answer within 10 seconds. Are you ready? 

Courtney
Let’s do it. 

Ange
Yeah. Okay. So this first one’s for you, James. What’s one strategy you use to start your day right? 

James
I start my day the night before by using BuildExact to send me updates. So when I wake up, my phone dings and it tells me exactly what I need to do on each day.

Ange
Perfect. 

Andy
Wow. I love that. That is very, very cool. And Courtney, what is something that has made you smile recently?

Courtney
Um, we have recently had my great grandparents visiting and we had dinner together. Our two kids and James sat at the table with my, with my granddad. So the kid’s great granddad and they played cards. They learned how to play snap. And it was, it was one of those, one of those little cool memories. It was very special.

Andy
In your beautiful new home.  

Ange
You know, it’s the simplest thing, isn’t it? That you just bank these beautiful moments and to have even had them in your house together at this number of generations. 

Courtney
Yeah, what a fabulous moment. 

Ange
I hope you took lots of photos.  

Courtney
Yes. 

James
I also dominated Snap just the other day.

Andy
No doubt you did.

Ange
You’re  not competitive either, James. 

Andy
No doubt you did. The kids had a couple of broken fingers in each hand.  Boom! 

James
Didn’t stand a chance. 

Ange
Alright, so last question for you both. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received? James, you’re up first. 

James
When I told my last boss, Hey, I’m going to go out and start my new business. He said, listen, Jimmy, you have to go 100%. You can’t half ass it. You just have to really just give it all. 

Andy
Give it. Yep. A hundred percent. There’s no doubt about that. Get stuck in. And what about yourself, Courtney? 

Courtney
Mine? Um, I always think of my dad. My dad, even when we were kids, used to always say, he still does, um, it’s all character building. Um, and I always take that as, you know, life throws us a lemon, but you grow from it, you learn from it, and you get better.

Ange
It’s such a positive outlook, right, that no matter what happens in your life, always see the positive side, because it is all character building. There are always lessons. 

Andy
And there’s tens of thousands of tradies listening to this podcast right now saying, every day is character building,  for f*ck’s sake. That’s killing me.

Courtney
I used to say, I used to say to my dad in response, I’d say, dad, I’m going to have a really good bloody character. 

Andy
Exactly. Exactly. Hey guys, I just want to say a massive thank you for being here on The Tradie Show today. You guys are absolute superstars and we’ve loved every minute of it.

Ange
Yes. We absolutely love having you a part of the Lifestyle Tradie community too, and sharing your journey. We wish you the continued success for your business and can’t wait to see you actually in like a week. Can’t wait. 

Andy
Yeah, it’s coming up soon. 

Courtney
Yeah, it does. 

James
Yes, it’s not far away. 

Ange
Gonna be the best. We’re coming to your neck of the woods, Queensland. The sun.  

James
No, um, thank you for having us. We really appreciate all of your help. It’s been great to talk to you both. 

Courtney
Yeah. Thank you. 

Andy
No worries, guys. We’ll chat soon. 

Ange
See you.  

Andy
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