Why systemising your business is the KEY to success — Guest starring Dan Pollard, founder of Fergus

Andy
Exactly. Exactly. So mate, for those of you who don’t know out there, what is Fergus and what drove you to set up this platform?

Dan
Ah, good question. Uh, Fergus is job management for tradies. So quoting, scheduling and voicing back costing timesheets, checklist, task, health, safety, all that sort of stuff. Right. It’s not financial management. And it’s also not project management. So job management is just for plumbers and sparkies who are doing, you know, three jobs a day for trade, banging ’em out. And that’s, you know, that’s bread and butter for what we do. And if you’re doing a big infrastructure project, that’s not us. If you’re, if you’re doing high rise building or 20 homes, that’s, you know, there’s a builder. No. , that’s not us. Job management, plumbers and sparkies banging out a lot, lots of jobs, lots of materials, lots of moving parts, lots of complications. Like now. That’s how I got into it and why did I get into it? Because I was an idiot. and, uh, no.

Andy
Mate. It’s a great platform. So obviously you had your businesses and you realized there was a need for it out there. Just tell me when it just, one day it clicked and you went, you know what, I’m gonna start a program and I’m gonna call it, Fergus.

Dan
Well, no, we started, cause I started myself between 20, so between 22 and 28, I had two businesses that were really tough. And I, I shut them one basically got shut down from tax and grief issues. The other one’s just from stress and overwhelmed. And so when I started again in the third year, I was like, I’m not going through that again. And I’m gonna get a computer system to solve my problems with managing. Creating a job, seeing to a guy getting the hours in materials back in.

Andy
Smart.

Dan
And I went looking and, and it, it wasn’t there. Mm-hmm. It didn’t exist. And so then I thought, oh, well how hard can it be to build something? Cause like, you know, they talk a lot about it, it was bloody hard. Those two businesses collapsing and starting again were bloody hard. And so this third one, I was like, this third one cannot fail. Mm-hmm. And so, right. I’m not gonna go through that grief of having to start a business, close a business, start again. It’s like, no. So I’ll build a tool so that I can get over this paperwork hump. And that’s what led me into software. And that was it. Just solving that, that system.

Andy
Going from a plumber to doing software. It’s interesting how things are, you know how you never know what’s just around the corner, right?

Dan
Well, and it’s not like I had any big dreams to build a big software company. I had No, I hadn’t. Well, literally I was, I dug my hole so deep before, have you been in, I use that analogy, right? You dig a hole. And you’re really deep in it. It’s just this little round thing looking at the sky , and I was just like, I’m just gonna knock it that deep again. And I’m competing to spend money to knock it in a deep, deep, dark hole again.

Andy
Yeah. And that’s awesome that you, you had that, you know, you’ve had two businesses and they failed, and you’re like, you know what? I can’t possibly fail the third time. I’ve gotta do something totally different. And you realize that having all this software and setting it up like you have with Fergus, which is what you needed, which is amazing. And you also say, and I hear it all the time, the importance of knowing your numbers, you know, based on your experience. How important is that?

Dan
Well, I think that’s fascinating. So, you know, I’m a classic man, started 22, didn’t, didn’t pay taxes, didn’t do invoicing regularly, didn’t put away money for paid power. Yet didn’t know ACC, didn’t know about politics, didn’t know about terminal tax. I didn’t know anything.

Andy
But you’re a bloody good plumber. Were you?

Dan
Oh, to be fair, I’ll do right.

Andy
Not great.

Dan
I was, I was never the best plumber in the world. Like, I’m pretty good, but I’m, I’m never gonna hit the best plumber in the world. I’m good at working and I didn’t mind my job, but I had a knack for making money. In some respects, just not knowing how to manage it, but, when I was about 28, I learned about gross margin as a business model. Mm-hmm. . And that’s just, oh my God. That was like, I spent my whole life now talking about gross margin as a business model. Yeah. And that just blew me away on how to organize my business. Fergus is built on gross margin. So every job is back-cost to gross margin. Every invoice, every quote, you click a button you can see gross margin. And from that foundation, Then that allows me to just examine, okay, why am I not making more gross profit? Because your overheads as a tradie are always pretty tight, right?

Andy
Hopefully.

Dan
So therefore, hopefully most tradies are pretty good, right? Yeah. So therefore, discovering gross margin, and then why am I not making more led me into like, okay, well chargeable hours, okay, material buying, and then how can I maximize my billable time and how can I start minimizing what I purchase? Right? Because that’s to me, the essence of stock control.

Andy
Definitely.

Dan
What is actually not buying. Not, not trying to buy cheaper or trying to buy in bulk to get discounts. It’s like, no, just, just not buying. Just buy what you need. Yep. And so once you start thinking like that, you start. Okay, cause it’s that whole thing. Um, numbers be, they get numbers, right? But once you start going down that little rabbit hole you say, realizing there’s all these numbers, you start, need to start checking. , but you don’t have to check non-important numbers. I think that’s one of the keys is why, like I always go about, everyone’s listening. You need coaching, you need mentoring, you need, don’t try and ever do it by yourself. It’s dumb. I spent seven years doing it the hard way. Now there’s not a lot of numbers that you actually need to share. Okay? Like once you, once you know what they are, there’s actually not a lot of numbers you can keep.

Andy
You’ve got those core ones that you need that make the real difference.

Dan
So the real difference.

Andy
Yeah. So you started Fergus all around that, knowing your numbers. Just explain to everyone out there, how does Fergus help them really get an understanding of their numbers?

Dan
Okay, so every business should be making 10% net profit.

Andy
Yep.

Dan
Right? As a base, right?

Andy
Yep.

Dan
Otherwise, what’s the point? You should be keeping your overheads to 30% of turnover, right? As a base assumption, right? Yep. So that means you and your, you add 10% plus 30% gives you 40%, right? So that now means every job needs to make 40% gross margin. Right? So let’s say the job’s a hundred bucks. Yep. The costs are gonna be $60 for the labor materials. Mm-hmm. . And it’s gonna give you $40. Cause you know, from that $40 you’re gonna pay $30 to overheads, you know, rent, power, uniforms, whatever. And then you’ll take 10 bucks as a business owner. . So once your head starts, once you’ve got the handle of that in your, in your head space, you go, okay, cool. So that means every job needs to make 40% gross margin. Yep. So now on the back costing on every job, you can now click a button and see the summary to see what your gross margin is. But what we did, or what I did, which is why I got into software in the first place. Mm. The labor that’s on the job, so when the guys put the labor on the, on the phone app, it starts back costing that job straight away. Cause we know what you’re paying them and what you’re charging out, right? Mm-hmm. So straight away we know what you’re getting a margin on that job. And same, same for the materials. It’s amazing. I don’t get more, um, more bouquets of flowers from tradies.

Andy
Like saying, you saved the marriage, you saved me. I just can’t believe I’ve got money now. I know how to charge. I know how to make money. .

Dan
And could we pioneer getting the data from the suppliers into platforms? I mean, I know it’s gonna happen eventually, right? Yeah. But like I. , I’m the one who actually, actually made it happen, right? Mm-hmm. . But I mean, that’s a revolution when you actually hook up your supplier accounts to your job management platform, and that information comes straight into the job and it’s back cost. And because we’ve got the cost in retail, we know exactly with no data entry, like every day. What your gross margin is on that job. And so what you’re supposed to do then is on the invoice, you click on the on the margin button and you can see when you invoice it what the margin is for the invoice or for the job. Cause if you’ve got a bigger job, you’ve done five invoices. Yep. That invoice might be going at the correct margin, but the job might be losing money overall, right? Mm-hmm. And so we’ve taken it into account and so you get one figure that lets you know what your gross margin is at that job. Because as soon as you know, I just always say 40% because I know this is slightly different but we just always pick on 40%. It’s logical. And so then your job as a business owner becomes, how do we make sure our jobs are hitting this gross margin target? Because it’s amazing what you can get back on a job, right? You can call up for extras, you can take materials back for credits. You can just find out why the label went wrong and hopefully get the extras to charge it, to sneak it back, or ultimately it may come down. You’ve gotta start changing the way you organize your business. So the guys are on site first thing in the morning, materials are delivered, right? . But as soon as you start checking that every cause I have a saying which is control every job. Control your business. Yep. Because if you try to control your business, there’s always looking at it from big pictures, it’s never gonna work. You have to control every job. So therefore, if you control every job to get the correct gross margin, you will then control your business.

Andy
And I know there’d be listeners out there now saying, oh my God, I don’t do anything like that. And they’ll also be saying, well, geez. There’s so many tradies out there that just don’t charge enough to make the profit they deserve for all the hard work and everything they put in. They stick their head in the sand, they’ve got no idea what’s going on, and they’re just like, ah, how come I seem like I’m making all this money? , but I just don’t seem to be making money at all. Why is that? And as you just explained, then it’s not that hard if you set it up the right way.

Dan
Yeah. But what I have seen, so Andy, cause I’ve been doing Fergus since 10 years old. I’ve been selling it hard out for eight years now. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm . And I’ve spent probably the first six or seven years. Really trying to educate people on gross margin and being systemized and trying to coach them and help them become systemized. Mm-hmm. And I’ve, I’ve now, hi, has stopped that approach and, and now thoroughly advocate that they get mentoring and sign up for programs. The results I’ve seen in six to nine months from mentoring are so stark. It’s the only way, it’s the only way I’ve seen this consistently. Guaranteed to work in six, nine months versus I’ve seen people in Fergus for years and years, never really getting the most out of it.

Andy
You know why though? You know, everyone was at the local supplier saying, do you have technology? Do you have technology? And they’re like, yeah, I’ve got technology and I’m using Fergus. But there’s so much more than just the job management system. And that’s why we started Lifestyle Tradie and do what we do. And everyone that joins us, they’re ready. They know what needs to be done. We coach and we tell them. And along with having the technology right. They can blow it outta the water. And another thing I wanna ask you is systemization in a trade business, how important is that and what do you think about that?

Dan
Well, system is like, so the classic one is a, like, I use that example. Can we, are we allowed to say a swear word on this show or not?

Andy
Yeah, mate. Geez, we’re tradies. Come on.

Dan
It’s like, it’s not too hardcore though. No, no, no, no. It’s like, it’s like that saying about McDonald’s, right? We all go there. It’s shitty food, but it’s the same shitty food every shitty time. Right?

Andy
Yeah.

Dan
And the reason people can, you can, your customers will use you again and again and again, if they can. If they can just guarantee you’ll answer the phone, you’ll turn up on time. You’ll do a job even if it’s not the best. Mm-hmm. What they can’t go with is one day you answer the phone, they’re wondering, one time you don’t, though you don’t call back for it for three or four days. People can’t cope with not knowing what they’re gonna get from you. They can’t cope with that. And so the only way to get over that is to bring in systemization.

Andy
A hundred percent.

Dan
But I wanted to touch back on a point like the benefit you get from coaching and mentoring is learning that it’s job management. Say it’s Fergus on zero. Yeah. That’s not enough to fix your business because you need mentoring, coaching to learn about marketing. Right. To learn that it’s not that hard to learn about a brand that it’s not that hard, but you need it, right? Mm-hmm. , you need a website, you absolutely need a sales process. You absolutely need an invoicing dispute process. And it’s when you bring these sort of all, these little, there’s probably what, seven or eight, maybe nine pillars.

Andy
Yeah.

Dan
That you need to bring together for a business.

Andy
Well, in, in the Lifestyle Tradie business model, we have 12, it’s platform, profit, money and people and they’re all broken up into three different segments. So there’s 12 pillars that we work with. And, you know, technology is really one of the pillars or two of the pillars. You know, there’s still another 10 things that you need.

Dan
And, but they’re not that hard. Right? Like, I, I don’t want people here to go, oh my gosh, there’s 12 big pillars. It’s, it’s, it’s like, yeah, they don’t take long to learn. Right? But once they’re in place, it’s super easy, right? Yeah. Like it’s, that’s what I’m saying, six to nine months you can learn all you need to learn and start implementing and getting amazing results.

Andy
I know that sometimes when people come to us, they think I’m just gonna throw a bomb in the middle of their office and blow everything up and have to start again. And that’s definitely not the case. Most tradies out there have a good business. It’s just they’ve lost their way along the way, and that’s what it, we just pull ’em back, work some structures out, get the systemization, get all that right. And if we can do that then they can really take off again.

Dan
Well, I think it’s, um, I was just mentioning before we, we got on like, um, listeners, I’m just, I’m getting past this critical age of 40 and, uh, not working on the tools anymore and, uh, things start to move south and going to the gym every day. But I have a trainer there because if I don’t have that accountability, I won’t, I won’t go as hard and I won’t go every day. I’ll make excuses. And it’s the same when you sign up for a business coaching service, right? You now have accountability or a program of work if someone’s gonna keep you accountable. And that’s what’s as you, so once you got stuck, stuck in a bit of a ru, you’ve got in a groove. You don’t know how to get out of it. Well, how do you get out of it without some training and coaching and accountability.

Andy
Exactly.

Dan
It’s too difficult. And so like can remember one, one time you, we talked about before, like you’ve codified these 12 steps, right? Yep. That is priceless, that someone’s spent the time and effort to put it like I’ve codified job management, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so why would anyone else create job management? Why would you? Yeah. It’s the same as why would anyone try to build their own system when they can just pay you some money and it’s done.

Andy
Yeah, exactly. And because we’ve been doing it for such a long time, it’s done the same way for everyone that’s involved with this. Yeah. And it works the same way and everyone gets success as long as they put in some time and effort and go through it. Another thing, mate, I wanted to talk to you about Delegating cuz I can be an absolute control freak and I was a lot worse back in the day. I guarantee it. But I’ve still got a bit of a control freak about me. I do sometimes like it my way, but I have learned that probably now one of my better assets is I am, you know, a few people say it to me is, you are turned into a finger pointer. You know, I know what I want, but I point and get someone else to do it. That’s the only way for true growth and to be able to get your life back and be able to think. So what’s your thought? And have you ever struggled with delegating?

Dan
No. I’m, I’m lazy man. , I’m, I’m good lazy, no. Delegating, as long as you’re delegating for customer outcomes, then that’s fine. If you’re delegating cause you’re being lazy cause you don’t wanna read your emails. No, not acceptable. Delegating is easy. So one, one of the things I say is at some point in your business career, every, per every business owner, they make that realization is why am I trading profit for time? Yeah. Why am I trading to save a bit more money? So I don’t pay someone, but it’s costing me all my time. And as soon as you go, you know what, I, I’m not gonna save 200 bucks a week. I’m just gonna pay a person to call the customers to make them happy. Mm-hmm. . And as soon as you make that realization that you get your life back, and then the customer gets an experience, and then guess what? Your business grows. And then, so as soon as you work out that little, that little circle , like, do you agree with me?

Andy
Oh, mate, I was having a chat with the guy the other day. His business was turning over just over 5 million and he was making around 15 to 20%. Right. Wow. So he was making serious coins. Wow. And he came to me and he said, oh, we, we need help. We need to structure systemized, da da, da. I’ve got no time. I do everything, da da da, da da. And when I actually went over some stuff with. I’m like, dude, you have a bucket load of cash. But he was a freakin tight ass.

Dan
Yeah, yeah.

Andy
And he wanted to save every dollar. I’m like, well, you can’t tell me that you work a thousand hours a week and you can’t spend time with the family, but you don’t wanna spend any money, mate. So sort your shit out.

Dan
Yeah. And that’s, so then I, I’ve seen a lot of delegating comes down to people who don’t wanna spend money. Yeah. So when you work out how much getting a part-time office person and just an order of materials can save you. You start realizing, it’s astronomical. Cuz you might pay, say an office person 35 bucks an hour. Right? But if they can stop your tradies traveling to the merchants to get materials, you’re paying them 40 bucks an hour, that one person can save you 120 hours of productivity. Mm-hmm. Plus over buying materials. And then all of a sudden you go, yeah, I’ve got all these other people. , but all of a sudden you work out, you’re making more money and you sort of can’t work out why. And it’s just that it’s that weird thing. You spent a bit of a bit of money, but it’s made your operation so efficient and it’s taken down the stress and the customer’s jobs get finished on time and they pay you faster and it’s all these weird little things that start happening when you’re not afraid to spend a bit of money on delegating those tasks to someone to do the, the, what is it called? It’s called proactive tasks.

Andy
Yeah, you’re right. And sometimes it does take money to make money when you’ve got a bucket load of cash. There’s no excuse, right? But there’s some people that are sitting on that edge of. Am I making money? Am I not making money? And as we said earlier in the talk, knowing your numbers is critical so you know when you are and when you’re not and, and how to go about that. But I, I think that is a really big thing, is that there’s a lot of tradies out there doing tasks and doing things that they shouldn’t do for the money they get for it. Yeah. And they get bogged down in the day-to-day grind. And we talk about this thing called the time maximizer that we do with our guys, and it’s getting an extra four to six hours for each person per week because all of us just fill our time up with shit sometimes and they’re not productive making money tasks.

Dan
Yes, I agree. And it’s better to be a tradie out cause most trades, what’s the charge I write in Australia? Probably close to a hundred bucks now for trading.

Andy
Well, it depends, mate. You know, you’ve got people that are working for builders and there’s, there’s your guys out there. You know, volume builders with a, with 50 staff and they might be charging 80 bucks an hour, which is way too low. And then you’ve got your maintenance guys that could be charging anything from a hundred dollars and you know, and there’s some people out there that are charging up to $300 an hour when you do flat rate and go down that path. But the thing is, you’ve gotta understand your hourly rate, not whatever, not what Billy bum crack’s doing, not with whatever, whatever your other mates are doing. The hourly rate, we’ve got an hourly rate calculator that does it exactly, so it tells you exactly what you need to charge to get the dollars you need.

Dan
But most people what? Paying off people’s 30 bucks an hour, 40 bucks an hour wages.

Andy
My trade is here in Sydney now. Yeah. You’re looking at 40 to 50 now. You get, you’re getting up there to 50.

Dan
But office staff, they wouldn’t be there, would they? They’d be,

Andy
No, the office staff aren’t at that same level. I think with the way it all is at the moment, it’s very hard getting good tradies and people are throwing ridiculous money out there. I heard of one guy that was advertising at $60 an hour and listen it, it just comes down to what, you know, some people can’t even afford to pay that, but I think there’s a lot of people out there that aren’t charging for their real worth and their knowledge and how professional they are. You know, and that’s where you don’t compete with the little guys. The guys that don’t have that same approach. Customers are happy to pay as long as you offer an amazing service.

Dan
They are very happy to pay. And as soon as you click into that, then that’s how you can afford office staff because you, in my opinion, if you like working on the tools, you’re better off working on the tools, do more hours on that and you get offers from people to do all the admin that you hate.

Andy
A hundred percent. And we say this, you should have the freedom to choose. If you wanna work on the tools six days a week, do that. If you wanna work on the tools two days a week, do that. If you don’t wanna work on the tools at all, do that. But set your business up so you can have the freedom to choose. Because if you are not happy doing what you’re doing, you’re not enjoying doing what you’re doing. Yeah. You are not giving your best.

Dan
And I think that’s funny, as I’ve gotten older, actually being happy is really important. And I’m not being contrite, actually being happy is actually really critical. And so in your business, if it makes you happy to be on the tools, then do that more. If I’m actually happy to do invoicing, do that more. Actually just do the part that you really enjoyed.

Andy
Exactly. I know that when I stepped away from the tools, I’ve been off the tools for a while now. The thing that I really missed was the banter from the boys. Yeah. We were ripping into each other, having jokes and laughs and guys were throwing funnel webs in my bucket and my tool bucket and I’d go to get my tools out and there’d be a funner web. You know, all those jokes. I know that sounds a bit serious, but all those things that we used to do were just, some of those memories were just amazing. Yeah. And I love that. And then you go to sit in an office going, oh God, am I built for this? And yeah. So, um, I certainly changed that. So mate, You’ve, you’ve experienced quite a few businesses. Yeah. So how do you measure success in business?

Dan
For me, it’s still always cash flow. For me., It’s the number one measure. Like, am I paid for 30 days? Yep. So I can pay my bills in 30 days. Mm-hmm. And then the second one is, is, is I, as I got net profit greater than 10%, right? Yep. But for me, my measure, for me from my stress levels where I’m at, I still don’t ever forget the pain of cash flow. Mm. And trying to make wages and pay my GST and all my taxes. So for me,

Andy
There’s thousands of people out there listening to this, nodding their head going, yeah, cash flows are a real killer.

Dan
And for me, that’s my single gross metric. Have I got cash flow in less than 30 days? That’s my number. So I can pay my bills in 30 days. And for me that will always drive, drive my thinking like when you have to make payroll for 25 staff. Yeah. You know that is pressure A. That is pressure.

Andy
It is. And we all know too, with businesses over a year, you have times where you’ve got bucket loads of cash and cash flow is not a problem, and then all of a sudden it’s not there and you think, what the hell is going on? And it can really freak you out. But the thing is, if you know your numbers really, really well, you actually saw it coming. Yeah. So you prepared for it and you’ve acted in the right way for it. So when it does happen and you’re a bit low in cash flow, you know that we’re only a couple of weeks away or

Dan
So in my business, because I’m sort of paranoid about cash flow after having so many tough times. Been through quite a few recessions and, you know, you know, bad debts over the years. So I’d always have one month’s worth of turnover in the bank. Yep. Uh, I’d have one month worth of invoices due and I’d have one month worth of work in progress. So basically could have almost sort of four months worth of work lined up to always be able to ease out that cash flow, right? To never get short again. And the rate the, the way I was able to get the money in the bank was that I would save money every week per tradesman coming on. , right? Yeah. Because you know what? They’ll turn over, so every week you save money for vehicles, rainy days and mistakes and just save that up so that you end up becoming your own cash flow. And so by having thought that in, that meant I could always pay, always have the money to pay my bills. And I was happy to sacrifice my personal life to always have cash flow in cash and bank.

Andy
Yeah, mate, that’s, that’s awesome. You know, you had that understanding. You’d gone bust the first time you went bad the second time, the third time, it’s like never doing that again. Right?

Dan
Never doing that again. .

Andy
So that’s good. Hey mate, I wanna just ask you. What do you wish you knew? Like when you first started that business the first time and even the second time you started business, what do you wish you knew beforehand, before starting a business and made sure that you got on top of straightaway?

Dan
I don’t want this to sound silly or contrite, but I’d wish I’d known that business was a science.

Andy
Yeah, yeah. Like mate, true.

Dan
Right Before then, I, I don’t know. I don’t know what I thought it was. I just thought it was like literally, I thought business wise, you do work, you send an invoice and you get paid. I literally thought that’s what business was. And I,

Andy
And that’s how we grew up though, isn’t it? We, yeah. Went, oh, I’m gonna go into business. I’ve got a truck, I’ve got some tools and yeah, mates were offering you work here and there and you just started and you just went, oh shit, okay, now I gotta do this. And I had one of our guys that, well, quite a few of my guys that had said, oh, Andy used to tell me all these things about business and things you gotta watch. And I used to think it was all bullshit. And now I’ve got my own business. I understand how tough it really is, and I think most of us, when you’re an employee, you just don’t understand how tough business is.

Dan
You can’t, no. And yet, once you get on top of it, . It’s really, it’s actually quite straightforward. But you’ve gotta have a brand. Yeah. You’ve actually gotta have values. Yep. And then that allows you to have a value proposition. And then around that proposition, you go, okay, what tools, systems need to be in place to deliver that value proposition. And then you can roll that out. And yes, it’s work, but it’s, it’s. . It’s all quite logical once you know how. Yeah. And that took me seven years before I stumbled onto a guy, gave me 12 articles from Harvard on business, and I read those over a weekend. Yeah. And also the penny dropped. I was like, you mean, you mean business as a science?

Andy
Yeah. No, it’s crazy mate. It’s all about as, as we say, and I talk to you a lot about getting the business model right. Yeah. There’s not one thing, there’s 12 pillars. You’ve gotta get everything right and even when you’ve got it all right, those tweaks of one or 2% per pillar means a lot of profit at the end as well.

Dan
Yeah, and that’s the, I think that was the, one of the weird things I discovered. This may not be such an epiphany for you or your, or your customers, but it was that weird thing, like between zero and 10, right? The halfway point is five, right? Yeah. But if you can save a dollar, So now it’s six and four, but the gap is now two. And so it’s that weird thing in business is if you can just save $1 on gross profit because you’re a bit more efficient with your time, it actually puts $2 on your bottom line. And so these tiny little tweaks that everything that saves you money and earns a bit of money has double the impact. And so these one or 2% across, as you say, 10 or 12 steps, actually ends up being like a 50% improvement. And it’s so weird, but once you click into it, you’re like, oh my gosh. Yeah, it’s a,

Andy
And it is. And it hits you like a brick in the face, doesn’t it? And you go, oh yeah, I get it. I understand it. I understand that every dollar counts, you know? That bit as, as a plumber, that bit of silver solar left on the ground and that bit here and that fitting left here and that one you’re damaged and this, and it all adds up to being profit in your back pocket. And so many of us are just wasting so much money. Hey Dan, it’s been absolutely great having you here today, but guess what, just before we go, we’d like to play a game and we do it with all our guests. You know, I’m gonna throw you three questions and you can answer them, but you’ve only got about 30 seconds or less each question that’s gonna be rapid fire. Are you ready to go?

Dan
Yeah, go .

Andy
Where’s the enthusiasm, man? Are you ready to go?

Dan
Can’t you see the eyes?

Andy
Tuck it into the game. Let’s go. Okay. Ready, set, go. What’s the biggest mistake you’ve made in business?

Dan
Of going into business as, as a 22 year old, not knowing what the heck I was doing.

Andy
And just going in blind, right?

Dan
Single biggest mistake. Yeah. No experience. Winning blind, single biggest mistake.

Andy
Good tradie. No business brains.

Dan
No, nothing. Just, yeah, that’s set me a world of pain for seven years of pain.

Andy
And until you click that and turn into that business guy and understand, business’s never gonna be right, right?

Dan
Never gonna be right.

Andy
Perfect. Okay. Number two, what’s the one piece of advice you’d give to trade business owners?

Dan
Oh, go and get business mentoring advice and just pay the money. Go and get business coaching. And if you are struggling, just go. I’ve seen it over and over. I can’t believe what coaching does in under six to nine months. I can’t believe it. I’ve seen so many transformations. I’ve done it. I’ve tried to educate, help trades, but they’re so busy. I, no, I’m just a, I’ve just seen coaching and they make you cry Andy, right? No. When you see if he would go from despair to joy in six months, it’s amazing.

Andy
There’s so many people we’ve worked with and the husband and wife teams or just guys that just have got to their, their end where it’s like, I just don’t get it. I can’t fix it. I dunno what I’m doing wrong. Everyone else seems to be so successful out there. Yeah. What am I? And you know, and they’re almost crying and Yeah. You know, definitely saved a lot of marriages and pulled people, you know, off the ground, dust them off. They’re good tradies and taught them a little bit about business and bang, they’re off and going.

Dan
Yeah.

Andy
So number three, mate, what is the best thing about being a business owner?

Dan
Gosh, I, I, for me, I’d have to say that feeling of being personally successful, that I’ve overcome those internal challenges of not knowing how to run a business. And I don’t, I can explain that deep joy of knowing how to actually be a business owner.

Andy
No, absolutely huge. Because you know, I know a lot of people say, oh my God, I actually knew, I thought I knew a bit about business. I didn’t think I was an amazing business owner, but what I know now, I realize how much I didn’t know, and I’ve actually got the love of my business back.

Dan
Yeah. It’s this deep feeling of it’s not the money success, it’s the, it’s that you, that I know how to run a business. Yeah. Like I know. How, and, and that’s a deeply joyful experience for me to know that maybe because the first two didn’t work the third one did. And that was the goal I set out and I achieved that goal. And now, you know, do you know Fergus has got Sydney staff and we’ve got staff in the UK as well.

Andy
Now he’s killing it. That’s awesome mate. That’s so good. And you, you know, that’s built an empire there. It’s unbelievable. I think what you are saying though is most people, when that is side to be a business owner, you don’t decide to be a business owner. To not be successful. So they wanna be successful, but they just get bogged down with the day-to-day crap, and they just never seem to be able to get outta that hole you are talking about.

Dan
And it’s not fair because, We don’t send an apprentice in event on day one. Right. He needs to spend years training. And then at some point in two or three years, most apprentices start creating like a tradesperson. They start feeling successful. Right. As a tradesperson. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s the same with business owners. You need to spend two or three years really training and learning your craft, and then you start to know, oh, I’m a business owner and I know what, I know how to grow this business and manage this business. And that’s deep, um, yeah. Well, for me, for you, are you deeply proud to know how to run a business?

Andy
Oh, a hundred percent mate. And what we’ve done and the love and joy we have with our business Lifestyle Tradie is, is just, you know, we just love it and just see everyone’s successes and what they’re doing. Um, they’re just killing it, which is amazing. You know what, in the end, everyone is counting on you as a business owner to be successful. You know, like your family’s counting on you, your staff’s counting on you, your ego’s counting on you. Yeah. And that’s a lot of pressure for one guy. You know, Dan and I have both experienced that pressure and all of the bad stuff that goes along with it. But that’s why we’ve set up our business to generally help other trade business owners going through the same experiences. Now, we hope that by sharing our experiences to other trade business owners, we can bridge this learning gap and set others up for success. Dan, you are an absolute superstar. I love you, mate. I always love chatting with you, a world of wisdom. Just wanna say thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Dan
Oh, Andy, thank you for inviting me. I always love talking with you. , we, we’re just bromance with you.

Andy
Yeah mate. There’s a bit of a bromance going on, mate. You’re a superstar. Thanks buddy. I really appreciate it.

Dan
Thank you.

Andy
If you are struggling with getting your business foundations right, let’s chat. In the show notes, you can click on the link to book a free one-on-one strategy session with me. We can chat about your unique business needs and develop a plan of action so you can have the trade business you’ve always wanted. Stay tuned. Ange and I will be back in the saddle next week to bring you guys an awesome episode about how to pick the right customers. That’s right. You pick your customers, they don’t pick you. Until next week, catch you then.