Sell like a superstar – Guest starring Simon Bowen, founder of The Models Method

Ange
Yeah. Andy and I published this book to help any struggling business owner find their way. The purpose of Start Up. Scale Up. Sell Up is straightforward to provide you with the exact steps to build a profitable trade business by addressing the problems you’re facing, keeping up with technology, charging the right hourly rate, managing your cash flow, marketing, customer attention, and chasing debt, just to name a few. It’s written by us, fellow trade business owners and owners of Lifestyle Tradie. This must have book captures trade specific strategies that work.

Andy
If you love The Tradie Show, love learning about how to run a business, then you’ll get a kick out of this new podcast. Search Lifestyle Tradie audiobooks, wherever you get this podcast, or check out the link in the show notes. The voiceover is actually a good mate of ours, John Bonasera.

Ange
Yeah, he’s got an awesome voice. Absolutely worth a listen.

Andy
Better than mine, Ange?

Ange
No comment, hard change of subject. For today’s episode, I want to introduce you to a really special guest of ours, Simon Bowen, the founder of the Models Method for Selling.

Andy
Yeah. Look, we’ve spoken a lot this season about how to sell, but Simon’s got a whole new perspective to share on how to sell without selling. Mm-hmm. Simon, welcome to the show.

Simon
Oh, it’s a pleasure to be here.

Ange
So I wanna kick something off, Simon. I was wondering if you could share with us really a basic overview of what the model’s method for selling is.

Simon
Yeah, absolutely. Well, the thing about sales is interesting. Most people go into business and they’re, they do their thing, but they don’t know how to sell, right? So what they do is they do all of the selling strategies that everyone’s taught them, which is pressure, scarcity, urgency, et cetera, et cetera. And those things have a place. But usually people are trying to explain complex things to customers. The customers don’t actually understand, otherwise they wouldn’t be buying it from you. If we think about trades, you know, and I come from a trades background in, in electrics and electronics, you think about trades, your average customer doesn’t know really what’s behind it. Like they think somehow bush, this thing’s gonna appear and it’s not that hard, right? So why should I pay great money for it? But they’re not paying the money for the actual thing you’re doing. They’re paying the money for the 20 years that allows you to do the actual thing you’re doing.

Andy
Exactly.

Ange
Such a good point.

Simon
Yeah. And so, you know, people usually go, oh, well it’s this much hourly rate. Right. Because it’s something the customer can understand. And so what we’ve done is we’ve taken largely verbal based sales, which is what everybody’s doing and, and we’ve even got word for it. You know, people call it the gift of the gab. If you’ve got the gift of the gab, you can sell it to anybody. Yeah. But people will hate being sold to by the gift of the gab. And we’ve actually taken something that probably emerged outta my own trade background. You know, if you’re a carpenter and you’re going to build a cabinet for somebody, you’ll probably scratch out a drawing on paper, right? And they’ll go, oh yeah, I get that. But no, I don’t want to. I want it taller than that. You know? They can see it. They can see the value. And what they’re witnessing is your genius coming to the fore as you bring all these ideas to the table on paper, right? And so what we realized is we could capture the real power of genius that people have individual models, little visual models that allow you to talk through how great you are without it having any ego attached. And so it’s a visual-based selling system that simplifies the conversation, allows you to get away from price-based selling without actually creating pressure, which is really the way everybody wants to buy, and therefore should be the way we actually sell. So many people are selling to their customers in a way that they would never wanna buy from when they’re the customer. And so if, if, if a tradesperson could grab a bit of paper and go, well, let me draw it for you and map out something and go, is that what you want? And have the customer connect emotionally to it, that would sell. So we’ve taken, you know, we, we know how to help. A tradesperson, take 30 years of experience, package it into a little model that takes six or seven minutes to walk through and go, here’s why you’re hiring me. So people are buying three things. They’re buying the actual end product. Call it a cabinet or, or, or a PowerPoint or , yeah, a gas installation or whatever. They’re buying that thing, but they’re also buying, uh, the way the job is done. You know how fast on time it is cleaned up and they’re buying who you are. Yes. And the thing that we don’t sell very well is the “who you are” and parts of the way the job is done. And so we’ve built these visual models that capture all of that, and it’s a visual method of selling that simplifies dramatically. Yeah.

Ange
I love your explanation because tradies, we say to these trade business owners all the time. When we mention the word salesperson, they all freak out. They all just have this immediate connection to sleazy car salesmen, pushy pressure, kind of selling. It’s the the words that literally come outta their mouths, and we are forever connecting the thought process of you actually are so knowledgeable, you forget that you are so knowledgeable, and actually that’s the reason why you’ve been invited into that property is just to share your knowledge and through education and it, you know, empowering me to make a decision and, and what I love from you is the fact that us as tradies, they do, I guess to use your term, they do, we say, have a bit of the gift of the gab, right? They’re, they’re people, people, so they know how to talk, they make connections quickly. They’re quite friendly, but they forget their value. They forget their knowledge. And so I love your connectivity of, if I could teach you a model, very simple model that literally through choreography about what comes out of your mouth, that doesn’t come across like that. But if you learn it in this way, you literally draw the customer into that buying decision so that at the very end of this process that’s very, very short, they actually arrive at the exact same position you want them to be in which is and now that’s a reason why you should buy from me without even saying those words. And it’s not pressure selling.

Simon
Absolutely.

Ange
It’s your profession. Just empower them.

Simon
Yeah. So you know, if we think about the psychology of the sale and what’s actually going on and why models are so powerful. Two quick stories, real quick. I’m doing some work at the moment with some people that sell to health professionals, right? And health professionals hate the idea of selling. The comment that I made, the throwaway comment I made, is the sale is the first step in the healing process and everyone, the room blew up. And everybody wants to say that again? Well, of course it is. If you can’t make the sale, they’re not gonna take the medicine.

Andy
That is exactly right.

Simon
There’s no healing to be done. So the sale is the first step in the healing process. Yeah. Sale is the first step in a renovation, a fixed, you know, problem in someone’s property. I, as an auto electrician, which is my first career, people would come in and say, the dash lights are flashing weird, or they’re not on it all or the engine warning lights are on and it’s strange cuz there’s nothing wrong. Cars driving, okay, and everything else. I say, no worries, I’m just gonna go and put a screw in the trailer plug. Hmm. And they go, what do you mean? I got the screws falling outta the trailer plug. And they go, what’s that got to do with this? And I’m going, well the, the steel little steel door of the trailer plug is shorting out the indicator and park light terminals to earth and that’s feeding through the dash. And that’s why this is happening. How could you possibly know that? And I’m going, cuz I’ve done thousands of these. And the plug is underneath, so it comes loose and falls out and they go, what are you gonna do to fix that? I go, I’m gonna put a new screw and then wrap some tape around it so it can’t fall out like it. It’s literally a five minute fix. And that’s $150. Thanks. They go, you only spent five minutes there. Well, I know. Yeah, but you knew what it was already. Exactly. Right, because I understand the diagnostic process, right? Do you want me to map that out for you? And so what happens is for you to defend that, you’ve gotta become egotistical and go, but that’s cuz I’m really bloody clever. Yes. And I know this right? And no people aren’t kind of comfortable about that. But if you go, well, here’s the diagnostic process. You attach the ego to the model, not to the person. And that really releases you to actually make the sale. But we get bored with our own genius and then we’re unimpressed by how clever we are. . Yeah, that’s a really big thing.

Ange
That’s such a clever sentence.

Simon
For people to get their head around and the customer, this is the psychology of the sale and why models matter. We are bored by our own genius when we come unimpressed about how we are, and yet the customer has to be wildly impressed by who you are. And so how do you reconcile that where you just plunk a model in between? Mm. And you go, let’s look at this. And they’ll go, that’s genius. You go. Yeah. It’s a model that we built to really help people like you, and just that one, it’s a model we built if they’ve got the model’s genius. Yeah. It’s a model we built. Then by definition, you are a genius.

Andy
I think with these models, you know, I mean the, the big thing with this mate when I look at it is it’s the perfect way to sell. And a lot of tradies probably listening now are going, well, I’ve never sold that way. And then it’s like, well, why would I sell it this way? Because, you know, a lot of us tradies, when you push them out of their comfort zone, they’re like, ah, this won’t work in my business because of blah, blah, blah. And you know, the truth is it’s scary to try something new.

Ange
So I guess to help the transition on that, is there customer psychology as to why you actually share a model during the sales process specifically? Is this going back to your,

Simon
Well, they, yes. The customer, particularly with trades, right? The first thought a whole bunch of customers are having is, could I do this myself? Mm-hmm. Yes. And then if there’s only two things, if I don’t have the time or I don’t have the know-how, then I better get a tradesperson. Yep. If I do have the know-how, but I don’t have the time, then I’d better get a tradesperson. If I’ve got the time and I think I’ve got the know-how, then I don’t need a tradesperson. Now if my know-how is gonna get a DIY job done, that looks like a DIY job, then the family will just have to put up with that. Mm-hmm. , you know, it’s not as slick and as good looking as it would’ve been with Craftsman doing it, right? Mm-hmm. . And so we’re actually trying to create tension inside the sales process that caused the customer to go, I didn’t even know what I didn’t know. Right. Oh my goodness. I hadn’t thought about that, and I hadn’t thought about that, and I hadn’t thought about that, and I hadn’t thought about that. And when you put a visual model in front of somebody, particularly if it includes layers of thinking that they hadn’t even reconciled without you actually saying to them, you know, you’re kind of useless. You can’t do this yourself. You’re actually saying to them, you know, you’re kind of useless. You can’t do this yourself, even if you’ve got all the time in the world.

Andy
And I think the big thing with that is that as trade business owners, that’s how we’ve gotta bring the value back, get away from this hourly rate, and put in the value that we need to make so we can make the dollars that we deserve. And, and that’s what you’re doing here with this model, which is absolutely awesome.

Simon
You know, people could draw a simple line, horizontal line, right, with a dot on one end at the left, a dot on the other end at the right, and a dot in the middle, and imagine talking to the customer and they, and, and early in the pitch, they’re saying to the customer, uh, you know, there’s three levels of job when it comes to this kind of work. There’s the DIY solution dot on the left, right diy underneath it, there’s, uh, you know, there’s the cheaper solution dot in the middle, uh, and then there’s the craftsman solution dot on the right hand end. I, I gather you’re not looking for DIY, otherwise you wouldn’t even be talking to me. What kind of a solution are you looking for here? Quick and fast and cheap, or you, do you want some craftsmanship here? Yes. Now if they go, I want quick and cheap and fast, you go, well, no worries, but I’m probably not your guy. Cause I’m not gonna be cheap. I’ll be fast, but I’m not gonna be cheap. So I do know someone who’s cheap that I can send you to. Just think about the psychology that’s going on with that. Yeah, but think about how hard it is to have that conversation without that one little line in front of you and think about what happens in the customers when you go, but I do know someone that’s cheap and I can give you their name. This is called the Takeaway sale. The customer’s going, why are you sending me to somebody else who’s cheap? Why are they cheaper than you? Well, I’m a craftsman. You know, this person is volume based, in and out as fast as they can, but we, you know, we craft the solution, you know, or I’m a diagnostician or I’m an expert. Or you could build your own choreography around it, depending on your trade. But just think about it, it’s a stupid little line with three dots on it. You could never have that conversation without the line. That would be arrogant. But with the line, the ego’s gone. The ego’s in the line, not in you, and they’re kind of, you’ve eliminated diy, you’ve eliminated cheap, and you’ve put yourself at the expensive end. But now the customer’s making a choice. And you know what? If the customer says no, I am looking for a cheap solution. And if I was the tradesman, I’d say, well, we can help you with that. Our best tradesmen don’t go onto those jobs. But we can absolutely help you with that. It’s, it works, it’ll solve the problem, but, you know, this is heresy to trade people to have this kind of a conversation because this is not how we talk to customers. Well, maybe we should.

Ange
I think we agree. No, I agree that we need to be taught things like this so that we are. I was about to say something more daring, but it’s not, it’s not that. It’s just to be able to layer some truth and some value about your business back in. And to your point, I believe that trade tradies, trade business owners, forget how incredibly talented they are. They have incredible knowledge and it becomes second place to them. So it does become very difficult or challenging.

Simon
It’s not just that Ange, they’re amongst the most valuable people in a community. Process that for a second. We lost an entire town in Western Australia to a bushfire a few years ago. We, we, you know, towns got wiped out with a cyclone on the northwest coast, uh, a couple of years ago. And the government, in their wisdom when this town was wiped out by bushfire, you have to rebuild. Right?

Ange
It’s like Lismore right now.

Simon
Yeah. Right. What do you, what, what’s the first thing you build when a whole town’s been wiped? You build and that’s what they did.

Ange
That’s so true.

Simon
And they got every, and they said to everybody in Perth, go to Harvey for the Sunday session. And then you, then you build the local store and then you get the petrol station cranking and uh, but people can go to another town for fuel. But you build the local store and then you start building their houses. Right now doctors are important. Accountants are important. Lawyers are important. Politicians are never important. There, there are, you know, but, but the most important people to that town are the tradies. They’re the only people that matter.

Ange
They’re the foundation of that community.

Simon
Well, the ability to provide shelter, fresh water, and power is a cornerstone of civilization. Your trades people need to think about ’em like themselves, like that. It’s a cornerstone of civilization. The people with the skill and the brilliance to be able to provide shelter for people, provide power and energy in location and fresh water and take away dirty water and provide gas and you know, keep vehicles moving for transport and all of those things. It’s a cornerstone of a civilized society. What don’t you see in an uncivilized side society don’t need a lot of, see a lot of tradespeople. You see slums and ghettos with wires hanging everywhere and all done by.

Andy
How do we get these customers to see the value in our trade business overall? You know, not just the dollar signs at the end of the quote. What’s the answer to that?

Simon
Yeah. Well, you, you, first of all, you need the customer to recognize that they actually don’t have a clue. Yeah. Which is really interesting. You know, I, I’ve, I was having this conversation with a very experienced, high level lawyer who actually, I won’t even talk about the law. I’ll just talk about myself. Right. I’ve been in the trades. I’m very practical. And I have a view if I get someone to come outta their house to do some stuff, but you know, not only here’s what we want, but here’s how I want you to do it. Right? Yeah. And then one day you do. In fact, I was just getting some covers made for the boat, right? And this guy’s a craftsman and I want, here’s, here’s how I wanted to work. And he went, why don’t you just let me figure that out? Yes. And I went, yeah, no, you’re probably right. .

Ange
I love that he put you back in your place.

Simon
And, and yeah, you’re probably, and, and he, the way he did it, he went like, how many, how many boats have you built? Covers for? He made covers for, and I’m going, yeah, none, but I’ve, you know, I’ve got a really good practical brain. He goes, yeah, but I’m the one doing the stitching mate. Yeah. And I’m the one you’re gonna come back to if it’s not right. And so you’re not just paying for the job I’m doing right now. You are paying for the support in the unlikely event that something didn’t map out the way you wanted and you’re paying for the advice to make sure it is a job that’s better than you expected. And you know, that comes at a price. And I would use analogies, you know, sometimes analogies are great. If you go to, if you go to a doctor for surgery, why do you pay them so much? The answer is we don’t want to, we don’t want ’em to get it wrong. Okay, so that doesn’t apply when it comes to your bathroom cabinetry. Oh, no, no. I, I don’t want you to get that right. Of course, there are the same amount of hours spent becoming a craftsman as there is becoming a surgeon.

Andy
That’s exactly right. And I always say it, mate. That’s why us tradies need to charge what we’re worth so we can make the money. I haven’t seen a successful trade business yet. The charge is a little bit of money and actually is successful because they haven’t got any money to grow, pay the staff, do everything they need to be a successful business owner.

Ange
Can I, um, I wanna loop this back to, um, pressure selling tactics cause I think a lot of trade business owners who are listening right now think that pressure selling is the only way to sell. And I think that’s wrong. We champion asking for the sale on the spot. That is really important if you are, you know, working for the right market segment, that you can actually do that. But there are a lot of poor pressure selling tactics circulating. I remember you talking once about a story that your daughter had with a cat company. Can you share that experience? I think that would be good for the listener.

Simon
So first of all, no one should ever think for a moment that I am not interested in people making the sale and asking for the sale is not pressure. It’s exactly the same as me saying making the sale is the first step in the healing process if you’re a doctor. Right? So asking for the sale is actually a responsibility, but it’s how we do it. Yes. And so agreed. Isabelle was hunting around, you know, the near cat compared the market kind of site, and she was looking for health insurance and um, you had to put your name and mobile phone number in there to be able to get in and do it right. And she’s clicking around all the health insurance policies and things and then her mobile phone rang and, um, she answered it and said Hello. And they said, oh, is that Isabelle Insurance? Ah, yeah. And they went, oh, this is sound side from, you know, um, me, Katz. We can see that you’re looking at health insurance policies and we thought, we find that it’s helpful to people if we just jump on the phone while they’re looking to help them choose a policy, you know? And, and if you can tell me, you know, when was the last time you went to hospital and, uh, she went, what the hell? ? Like, are you watching me on the website? He said, oh yeah, we can see, you know, we can, we can see your movements on the website. And she said, listen mate, I’m just looking. And he said, yeah, I know, but I can really help you make that. And she, and so she said, look, I’m outta here. And hung up the phone and got outta the website and never ever went back. Right? Because it breaches a fundamental issue. So there is a style of selling. I actually think pressure based selling is so industrial age 20th century people almost revolt against it. Now, no one likes to be pressure sold, right?

Andy
Agree.

Simon
That does not mean that you don’t ask people to make a decision.

Andy
Let me ask you this then. How do we know when you’re with a customer, cause I always talk about how everyone has their line in the sand of what they should charge and what they need to charge for their business to be successful. But how do we know as tradies that we’re actually crossing the line with customers? Is there a point from a sales stand perspective like mecat? Just like when, when are we being too pushy?

Ange
Yeah, they should never have called.

Simon
I can give you one question that people can ask themselves all the way through. That will keep them on the line, right? Really, it’s a process of replacing pressure with safety. I call it customer safety. Buyer safety, right? And we’ve had a sales approach for the last 50, 800 years, that’s all been about unsafe, making the buyer unsafe, like, you know, tricky closing techniques, manipulative tactics and everything else, and, and, and maneuver them into a position where they can’t say no, there’s three outcomes in a sale, and they’re all valid, no later or yes. And so, yeah, you know, when you’re asking for the sale, you want one of those three things to happen because if they say no, you can move. If they say, maybe you can go, well, when should I cycle back and check? And if it’s a yes, it’s a yes. What you don’t want in the middle of that is leave it with me. Right? And so if they go, uh, no, it’s more expensive than I wanted to pay, no problem. That’s an affordability issue, not a value issue. People interpret affordability as the customer not being happy with value. Not everyone can afford you, and just be comfortable with that. So if the customer says, oh, that’s outside of my budget, you might say, is that from an affordability point of view or from the perspective of what you, you expected this to cost? That’s not the question I’m gonna give you by the way, but it’s a really key question. Oh, that’s more than I was expecting to pay. Right? Do you mean from an affordability point of view, being able to afford it or being more expensive than you expected it to be? And depending on the answer, you got a pathway. They go, no, I just can’t afford that. Well, I’m sorry to hear that, but you know, that’s, that’s what we charge. But if it’s more expensive than they expected it to be, now you, you haven’t made the sale yet. You haven’t expressed value enough, but let’s talk about that. But we, so we, we’ve used all these pressure techniques and if you bias safety is the principle of making the customer feel safer with you than they would be without you every step of the way. So the question is simply this, am I making the customer safer? If I do this, now, there’s no way you would ring somebody who’s bouncing around a website in the privacy of their own home, just having a casual look at health insurance. If you ask the question, am I making the customer safer? If I jump onto the phone and tell ’em, I’m watching them walk around the website and ask them what their, when was the last time that went to hospital and we could help them, is that gonna make ’em safe? And the answer is no. You’ve crossed the line.

Ange
You are too personal and you’ve reached my trust.

Simon
Yeah. You, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve entered their, their, their comfort zone when they haven’t invited you in. And so, you know, having a conversation with, let’s bring this back to, you’re a tradesperson, right? You’re an electrician and, uh, someone rings up on the phone and they say, ah, you know, I wanna get a quote. I’ve got 10 PowerPoints to put in, you know, and we’ve put this extension on the back of the house. We’ve already had the lights and all that sort of stuff done. But we want a bunch of new PowerPoints put in as well. And in creating the main part of the house as well as the extension, we didn’t put enough. Can you give us a quote? Now if I just go, yeah, it’s uh, $180 per PowerPoint. You’ve got 10, that’s $1,800. Am I making the customer safer with that or not? And the answer is, you’re probably not. There’s no relationship. It’s too early to put the price out there. They’ll go, oh, I’ve got somebody who can do it for 50 bucks or my mate, or something like that, you know? So what’s the questions class? Ah, look, we can absolutely help you with that. How detailed have you mapped out usage and exactly where you want the PowerPoints and considerations for upgrade later without having to delay new cable? What do you mean? Yeah. Oh, well we could just, you know, a lot of people just put in PowerPoints, but you can also put in PowerPoints that allows you to double the cap, the, the, the number of power outlets and increase capacity. Let’s say you turn that back room into an office and you need four outlets per plate versus two, you know, so there’s some forward planning stuff, how detail has that thinking been, and then that will help us put the quote together and almost certainly they’re gonna go, we haven’t thought about that at all. But you just made ’em safer cuz you brought it out. What we’d love to do is come out, cite the, you know, take a look at the site and do a quote, and we’d love to map that out for you and give a really solid quote that will not change once we’ve given it to you. Would that be okay? Yeah, that’d be great. Uh, can you give me an estimate of the price? Well, I can give you an estimate. I can tell you it’s gonna be between, you know, a thousand and $1,800 depending on what you’re looking for. I mean, if you pick a wide enough range, you’re gonna pick up everything in the marketplace, right? Yeah. So you still get, because you still gotta get at, at the opportunity, so they know you’re not, they know you’re not gonna be $5,000. So you’re gonna be in the range, but, or if you could send us the plans, we could actually probably walk through that with you, uh, over the phone or we could look at first put the, you know, put, put a quote down. But what I’d love to do is walk you through it and explain why we charge what we charge once we’ve actually got this thing mapped out for you. Um, now I’m sure you guys teach menu pricing and things like that as well, but it’s just how you deliver it, right?

Andy
Yeah, I, I think it is, it’s how you deliver it, how you build trust with the customer, as you’re saying, and, and add that added value that no one else is giving. So what you are doing is you’re in front of the customer, making them realize there’s a lot more than just putting in a couple of PowerPoints, and this is what we do at our company, and this is why you should use us.

Simon
And everything is about am I making them safer when I do this? That’s a big question. Am I making them safer when I do this? If they feel safer with you than they do without you, they can’t go to anyone else.

Andy
Yep. Agreed. So, Simon, we’d like to play a game. It’s, well, I’m gonna fire three rapid fire questions at you. You’ve got about 10 seconds or 20 seconds to answer each one. Are you keen to play this game?

Simon
Yeah, Okay.

Andy
Okay. Okay, let’s start. So Simon, you started out as a tradie back in the day. So what was the best part of being a tradie all those years ago?

Simon
Farmers, cuz I was in the country and, um, You know that moment when you step back from a huge job, in my case it would be completely rewiring header because farmers don’t check what the rats have chewed off the electrical cable in the off season and they started up and everything smokes. Right? You know that moment when you step back from a huge job that you’ve done and you know, there was phenomenal work.

Andy
You just nailed it, .

Simon
You never get sick of that. You never get sick of that.

Andy
Yeah, no, that’s, you never do, mate. I know. We can always look back on that as tradies, that’s for sure. Okay, number two. So with us tradies, we don’t get taught a lot about business or even sales at TAFE. So do you think we should be introducing a lot more about business and especially sales when they’re going through the TAFE system in the early beginning for these younger approval.

Simon
Yeah, look at, it’s a fascinating question cause I used to be lecturing at TAFE and I lectured in the post-trade program as well, and one of the subjects I taught was business, uh, in TAFE business for tradespeople. Right? You know, less than 8% of the people that came through the trades college, the TAFE college came back and did that as a part of their post-trade studies, right? They picked up additional skills, but they all needed to do that. And you know, it didn’t even include how to sell. It was about how to run your books, how to pay your tax, yeah. And all that sort but it didn’t include anything about sales. Right? So if I had a trades business today, definitely I’d study something about business or I’d find the avenue to find something out about business,

Andy
Lifestyle Tradie!

Simon
And so I was actually gonna say, I wouldn’t go to general business training. I would go to people who talk about trades business. Right. Yeah. And then I’d involve my team and I’d do it with them as the owner in sales training, so that everyone could sell. Right. But my problem with TAFE teaching it is that they’ll mess it up. You know, it’s,

Andy
No, they don’t specialize in it. And the people they’re teaching it don’t really know it, reading it out of a handbook, it’s probably a hundred years old. And yeah.

Ange
If we, if we told these young blokes though that if they learnt the art of selling properly, they’d pick up chicks. I reckon they’d all listen. Right? Because, you know, foundationally that’s what , that’s what you can use this technique for.

Andy
This is called Tinder . I think they found that already. I found it there. So mate, I’ve got the one last question. So what is one of the biggest pieces of advice for trade business owners that are listening out there, they’re driving in their car, they’re sitting at home, they’re having a beer, whatever they’re doing. What’s one piece of advice for them right now?

Simon
Oh, it’s, it’s, I’m not even sure if it’s advice as opposed to it being a challenge. Right. And it’s what we talked about earlier on, particularly in a technologically enhanced world where so much is moving to tech, right? And so much is moving to, you know, remove and replace. The fundamental trade skill is diagnosis or design. So if you’re in carpentry cabinet making, you know, something like that, it’s, it’s the design work, right? If you’re in electrics, electronics, plumbing, gas. It’s the diagnosis. The hands-on stuff can be taught and can also be replicated with technology and C M C machines and robots. But tradespeople are actually the heartbeat of the community. It’s so, tradespeople need to think of themselves as the builders and rebuilders first, and they need to lock onto that value and never let it go because everyone else will diminish the identity, if you let them and the world has learned to look down on tradespeople. Why? Because they didn’t go to university. Right? But only 20% of the population ever go to university. And interestingly enough, there’s a lot of tradespeople earning a lot more money than doctor graduates and lawyer graduates.

Ange
Simon, that was great. Thanks so much for sharing your methodology with us for selling. It’s been an awesome learning experience.

Andy
I second that. It’s been great having you on the show.

Simon
Pleasure. My pleasure. Absolutely.

Ange
Well, Andy my head’s spinning from information overload. What an awesome way to close off the season. Ready to take a holiday?

Andy
Yeah. Sounds like a good one, Ange. Remember guys, The Tradie Show podcast will be back in two weeks. So subscribe so you get notified when season five is about to kick off.

Ange
And don’t forget, in the meantime, our new podcast Lifestyle Tradie Audiobooks is available wherever you get your podcast. So just search Lifestyle Tradie audiobooks, and you’ll find us. This book covers everything from why 90% of tradies are struggling, how to get on top of your control freak habits and major challenges when starting up scaling up or selling up your trade business.

Andy
Not to mention truth bombs for every tradie. How is the right business model, is your key to freedom? Five tactics to power up your profits, plus steps to transform your business without reinventing the wheel. This audiobook podcast is really worth the listen, so make sure you check it out today. Thanks for listening guys. Catch you!

Ange
See you!