The system promising a goal of zero admin – Guest starring Darren Ford & Michael O’Neill from ServiceM8

Andy
All right. All right. But in all seriousness, I’m gunho about today’s podcast. As tradies, we all love being on the tools. We really do. It’s awesome to be able to work with your hands and see the real results of your hard work at the end of the day, but when we become trade business owners, sometimes being on the tools can get in the way of building our businesses up.

Ange
Yeah, right. If you spend eight hours a day on the tools, the last thing you wanna do is come home and start on admin with paperwork and all that business stuff that comes with running a business. Plus you probably have family and friends who you’d much prefer to be spending your evening with, not a laptop and a spreadsheet, right?

Andy
Absolutely. So we end up putting it off or staying up to stupid o’clock, trying to catch up, and at some point we all crack it and say, I’ve gotta find a better way. You know, I went through this within my own trade business and there’s only one way I was able to cut the late nights and start living my life again. A smart job management program.

Ange
That’s why we are so happy to introduce you all to our guests today. Darren Forder, Michael O’Neil from ServiceM8, Smart Job Management for trades and services. Thanks so much for joining us here today, guys.

Darren
Thanks for having us.

Michael
Thank you very much for having us.

Andy
Yeah guys, I am super excited to have you guys with us today, but, uh, let’s dive in. So, Ange and I have noticed a shift in the trade industry towards technology in the last decade. You know, in our educational business Lifestyle Tradie, we’ve taught thousands of trade business owners how to turn their businesses around and start making an awesome profit. And so many of them when they first come to us for help, don’t even have a job management software integrated into their trade business.

Ange
That’s right. And we used to get a lot of pushback when we recommended that they ditch the paper and try something else. But in the last few years, we are seeing more and more trade business owners are finally starting to integrate job management software into their business model. So Darren and Michael, you guys both have seen this gradual acceptance over the years, so what do you think has been the tipping point for trade business owners adopting technology solutions?

Darren
Yeah, it’s definitely been a gradual change. Like cuz we’ve been around since 2010. We’ve seen business owners, uh, adopt technology over that time. In the past it’s always been that it’s been a wall, it’s some kind of problem that they hit that they, they can’t solve their normal way, either they’re, you know, not providing the level of service that they’d like to, or their cash flow’s really bad, or it’s that, like you said at the start, it’s the late nights and they’re just sick of spending every night. And that’s the point that they force themselves to go and learn something new and learn to make the switch. So I think, more recently, the global environment is pushing businesses towards having to adopt technology.

Michael
Yeah, for sure. Like we’ve seen the impacts of Covid and the demands that’s put on trade and service businesses just in how they run their business. So in some respects, they’re used to managing jobs and staff in the field and, and working from job to job and client to client. So they did have a bit of a leg up in adapting to the circumstances of Covid. But you know, all of a sudden they had to add to that with having to have office staff work remotely as well and having to, to provide a huge, whole new level of communication to their clients in terms of, you know, their covid compliance and making them feel safe and comfortable before they attend the job site. So, yeah, definitely the impact of Covid, we did see a bit of a, a spike and that was a, a tipping point in itself I think pushing tradies towards job management solutions.

Andy
Yeah, I think maybe there was that time. Like most tradies, their biggest problem is they have no time and that’s why we say you need a job management system, but they didn’t have the time, so they waited for the covid and all of a sudden, some of them did have the time. But what I’m really seeing as well is these young guys coming through the young up and coming guys that were born with an iPhone in their hand. They’re like the older bosses, why are you not using technology? And the older blokes like it’s worked for 30 years and it’ll work for another 30. But finally we are wearing the older guys down. I’m talking older guys, more my age, 40 plus. And they’re starting to go, hang on. If we want a serious business, we have to have this technology.

Michael
Yeah, for sure. I think you definitely see the influence of that generational change over time, like job management software as a category. You know, it is still relatively new, but like Darren said, we’ve been around for 10 years now and you do see that generational change of young apprentices, you know, graduating up through to business ownership and like he said, born with an iPhone in their hand. Like many, yeah, just naturally expect there to be an app for that, when they come to try to manage their jobs and, and clients. So yeah,

Ange
I would imagine that it’s the tradies. So the guys who are employed are actually almost putting pressure on their boss. You know, this older guy to say, for God’s sake, like, move with the times. You’re making my job hard. If you want me to succeed out there, then you have to do something about it. I’ve seen that actually happen quite a few times. Have you seen that too?

Michael
Yeah, for sure. And it might be a matter of them just coming across it, um, maybe from a previous job as well, like they might have used a job management solution and then, and then moved to a different company and, and kind of saying, you know, what are you guys doing? Like, totally this kinda, and I think there is definitely, like, like Andy was saying, that competition aspect as well. Like the world is moving so fast and job management software does give you a competitive advantage in this environment. So just the nuts and bolts of the results and benefits you. You do gain a competitive advantage over your competitors, and that will push people out. So if you wanna, you know, stay relevant and, and survive, you need to adapt.

Andy
A hundred percent. And there’s no doubt about it. And I’ve got no doubt you’ve got a lot of tradies that are changing businesses and they go to a business that doesn’t have a job management system and they’re like, mate, your business is a basket case buddy. Sort sorted out or I’m shipping out and I’m hearing those stories as well. So in a time where tech in trade businesses is huge and there seems to be a different job management system coming outta the woodwork every second of the day, you know, for myself personally and Ange and you guys are definitely at the top. And do you see you guys and think to yourself, there’s a lot of competition out there, or as I said, we see you guys right up there, but what makes you different? What makes ServiceM8 different from everyone else that’s trying to dip their toe in the water?

Darren
I mean, I think even when we started in 2010, there was a lot of competition at the time, the landscape was very different, but there was, I think there was over a hundred products globally doing something like was like pa uh, Palm Pilot Solutions or like, they had the office solution and they printed out a work order and the work order went out. So we’re still some level of field service slash job management that has existed. But now at the, yeah, there’s definitely a lot more in like every other week we see, uh, new ones pop up. But I think for us we’ve really focused on simplicity and we’ve really focused on small business. So ServiceM8 was born out of a small business and we have a background in small business, so we genuinely are trying to make a difference, make an impact. And helps more business owners while providing, you know, a value product that can help them, you know, achieve their goals, like having more of a life and that kind of stuff. So I think that focusing on very small, not pushing up the chain to enterprise and larger businesses has allowed us to make a really simple, easy to use product that does the right amount of things, that keeps it simple and easy to use.

Andy
A hundred percent. I think it’s really interesting, I don’t know if you guys even know this, but probably around 12 years ago we tried to build our own job management system. I’d spent about a hundred grand doing it. And then one night I woke up in the middle of my sleep and I went, what are you doing? You dickhead? You had no idea what’s going on here. And I actually shut it down the next day. And I think a lot of tradies out there probably resonate with that. Cause everyone thinks they’ve got a bigger and better idea. But it’s hard to be the leader of the pack like you guys.

Darren
I think it’s really, it’s like I just pull it back to focus again. We really don’t actually look at competition as much as you maybe should in like, I mean, what, what is normally standard you, you know, do competitor analysis and stuff like that and look at how you position yourself in the market and all that kind of thing. But it really does end up changing your focus and your, you end up trying to solve problems the way that they’ve solved it or you add features to things that they’ve added and then suddenly you’re not. You’re disconnected from the problem and you’re not.

Michael
Yeah, you’re distracted. So it is very much a distraction and, and we just really try to focus on the customers and their problems and solving those the best we can. Otherwise, there is that, that classic trap of, you know, focusing on your competitors and trying to do some kind of box ticking exercise. You know, what features do they have? Let’s make sure we have all of those as well. And, and it’s very much, Splits your focus and distracts.

Andy
So there’s no doubt about it, you guys, one of the things exactly what you just said, then you guys stay in your lane and you give a great product and you, you listen to everyone’s ideas, but you stay in your lane and I think that’s why you do have an incredible product.

Ange
Well, I am aware that ServiceM8 just recently launched your latest update called ServiceM8 10, and I can only imagine that your team has so many big ideas for the platform and received so much feedback from users with endless requests. And it must be really hard to decide, well, what areas of the platform do we tweak and update first? So I know that lots of listeners who even use ServiceM8 today would be asking, how do you make that decision? How does the ServiceM8 team decide what areas to improve first? Can you share?

Darren
Yeah, it’s definitely difficult. Uh, it’s a hard challenge to balance the feedback that we get and we, we get a lot of feedback from lots of different channels, directly from customers through support tickets and through our partner network, or working with lots of different businesses and kind of, you know, filtering it down to what they think is important. A lot of the time if you had three different business owners in a room as well, like the number one feature that they want, or the, the biggest thing that they need is it doesn’t align very often. Right. So, um, that like trying to, um, balance and create something that is gonna make a big difference to all businesses is definitely a challenge. But I’d probably go back to that, the focus point, we just focus on small business and simplicity and trying to solve a problem.

Michael
Yeah. Yeah. So like that, that feedback we get. It’s really solid gold. Really like , real feedback from, of people using your product and small business owners actually taking the time to give you feedback out of, you know, the day-to-day of running in the small business. That’s pretty precious as well. It’s so valuable. And I think ultimately we go through a process of distilling and grinding that down to, you know, what those core problems are that they’re experiencing, uh, both inside of service made and, and what’s, what problems are they facing outside of ServiceM8. What opportunities are there, there, and we’ll grind all those down to, you know, what those problems are and, and how can we solve them better. And like Darren said, there’s a lot of balance going on and a lot of lenses and filters that we go through in looking at what’s next for ServiceM8. And, you know, we’ll kind of try and strike that balance in a way that, you know, we touch core workflows and key actions that people use all day, every day. You know, how can we make them faster and easier and or more automated? Or what are some of the features and add-ons that we have that we could improve on? What kind of new mobile and cloud technology has come out, which opens up new opportunities, new innovation to do things like, you know, get more work done or provide better service or, or get paid faster. So there’s all these different kinds of ways you can look at it. And then, you know, we kind of also look back at what are those key benefits that we wanna provide? Like, you know, more productivity, more efficiency, better cash flow, better service, like what can we do in those areas as well.

Ange
Just the workflow in general for a trade business owner or any trade is actually somewhat complex, right? And what I think that you have mastered, which you’ve touched on Darren, is like your critical point for ServiceM8 is simplicity. And knowing that we have like 60% of our membership for Lifestyle Tradie, 60% of them use your product. And that is the one thing that they say, the reason why I like ServiceM8 is because it is so simple to adopt and it is so simple to learn and it is so simple to teach my team, and they’ve grown with the product. You know, they’ve taken it on when they were just them and they’ve been able to take it right through. And you guys have been listening that any time that you do updates, which I can imagine, as we’ve said, is super complex because everybody has an opinion about what they want.

Andy
Every tradie has a big opinion of what they want and they want it now.

Ange
But you’ve, you’ve stayed really true to your cause of ensuring that whatever we do, it needs to just help them take a step up, help the majority of our users and just be simple, simple to apply.

Andy
So guys, I heard an interview, um, you had an interview with Zero, you know, you mentioned that everything ServiceM8 does that strives towards this Zero admin goal. I mean, clearly that’s the dream for every trade business owner. I mean no admin. How freaking good is that? So can you guys explain a little bit more about this Zero admin and how you guys are working towards it?

Darren
Yeah, so it’s actually our vision that the only work that a business owner or people in a business should be doing is the work they’re actually paid to do.

Andy
A hundred percent.

Darren
You know, fixing pipes, you know, installing hot water systems, replacing fans, which boards, that kind of stuff and everything else around that, we want to ultimately automate to the point you don’t have to do anything. If we can’t do that, we wanna streamline it. So it’s really fast and simple and like a, you know, a one tab. And if it’s a harder task, then obviously there’s a couple of steps. But we’re always trying to challenge, when we look at a new problem, we start with, can we automate it? Can we completely remove the task that you’re trying to do so you don’t have to do anything to complete this? And then we go back from there. There we are, maybe we can’t for whatever reason, but technology’s not available, whatever. Um, so we’re always looking at new technology, what’s available that allows us to maybe do something that we couldn’t do last week. Because some kind of new technology has become available, can we solve it?

Michael
And I think we kind of, we’ve achieved it in certain workflows. I would argue when we launch our self-serve online booking form, our customer can select a service price that they service themselves, book a time in, pay for the service, and then that’s literally on your schedule. A staff member can go do that job. It’s already been, it can literally be, already been invoiced. Yeah. So then they can just write a, a received. And complete the job, send it to Xero or their accounting package and go to their next job. So that workflow has very little interaction and the customers had a great experience because they got to book it at 11 o’clock at night or whenever they had the time available to go and book that service. So it’s kind of like a beautiful zero admin workflow.

Ange
That’s awesome. I think one thing that a lot of us actually get stuck with this, Keeping up with updates, so how do you make sure as a business owner that we’re actually using a hundred percent of the features of the app and getting the most out of the service?

Michael
Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge with using software like software companies like us, love to release updates and new features and improvements and trying to keep up with that is definitely a challenge, especially for time poor small business owners. Mm. And, and kind of one of the, the approaches we take to that is instead of drip feeding features out, we do big lodges. Uh, once or twice a year we’ll release dozens of new features and improvements in one hit. And what that kind of does, is twofold. One thing is it’s much easier to dedicate, you know, 45 minutes or an hour once a year to learn what’s new with ServiceM8 and then action that. And another reason is that we’re not constantly changing the product and pulling the rug out from our customers for what is a business critical piece of software that they need to use all day, every day.

Ange
So they have a bit of warning. .

Michael
Yeah, so the best way for ServiceM8 is just to check out our most recent launch video. Like we put a lot of work into them. Darren does an amazing job of putting these things together and, and it’s definitely, you know, 30 or 45 minutes worth of time and it’s the most efficient way to learn what’s new with ServiceM8, and anyone can find that from our homepage. Yeah, that’s probably the easiest way to keep on top of what’s new with ServiceM8.

Andy
And it’s huge. You know, the old keep it simple, stupid. I mean, we talk a lot about that in Lifestyle Tradie, because a lot of people build these businesses and they just take on a bit of everything, and then the business gets too complicated. And the only person that can do that business is the business owner. And if anyone’s good enough to do that type of work, they’re out on their own doing their own thing anyway, so you’re sort of stuck holding the baby. So I, I love it that you guys keep it so simple. What we do now is we’ve got this thing, a game that we play. It’s called Rapid fire questions. I’m gonna be rattling off three questions to you guys. You have up to 30 seconds to reply. Are you ready?

Darren
Yeah, let’s do it. .

Andy
Okay, let’s go. I’m gonna start. I’m gonna start with you, Darren. So what is next for ServiceM8 and what is on the horizon?

Darren
A secret .

Ange
Nice answer.

Andy
Well, I suppose that is a good answer.

Darren
Uh, well, you know, so I think we’ve always, we’ve tried to not talk too much about what we build so that when you’re evaluating ServiceM8, whether it’s the right fit for your business, it’s like, what does it currently do? But you know what, if you want clues, it’s gonna be a lot around what we just said. It’s, uh, you know, customer experience. It’s impacting their core workflows. It’s automating, it’s zero admin, like that stuff.

Andy
Awesome. Awesome. So we’re gonna go over to you, Michael. What is your golden nugget of advice for any trade business owner listening right now?

Michael
I would say you don’t know what you don’t know. It’s something I try and live by and essentially, no one’s born an expert in their trade and no one’s definitely born an expert in running a small business. Kind of check your ego and seek help, ask questions, you know, develop mentoring relationships, get business coaching, and be hungry to learn more and improve. And I think that’s something that’s helped me personally.

Ange
I think the older we get, the more we realize we don’t know. Is that a smart way to look at it? You just need to be a big sponge. Right? Be a sponge.

Michael
Yeah. Like what, yeah. Once you become more comfortable with yourself, you are more comfortable to let your ego go and, and just learn from others.

Andy
And I, and I think there is a bit of ego out in all business owners. This is who I am and this is what I do. And the old saying, if you don’t know, you don’t know, is so true. But if you don’t try, you’ll never know. So get off your ass and have a crack. And you don’t have to learn it yourself. You’ve just gotta learn from people that are doing it around you. And I think that’s a real top tip. So I’m gonna head over to you, Darren. What would you say is the best feature of ServiceM8?

Darren
That is an excellent question. . Um,

Andy
I love putting you guys on the spot. .

Darren
I would probably say our app, and that’s a pretty big, you know, feature, but, um, I think the app of ServiceM8 is, it’s just so nice and so simple to use and so fast, and it’s just so core to the everyday workflow. It’s like you’re using it all day, every day in the field, and I think it’s, yeah, I think it’s probably the best I can cut .

Ange
Is that how you would answer that question too, Michael? Best feature of ServiceM8?

Michael
Oh, it’s already taken. , my favorite feature. I’ll, I’ll probably cherry pick a recent one, which is something we call scan and pay. So you know you’ve always been able to take payment on site with the ServiceM8 app. You’ve been able to take card payments, enter in the card details. Using nothing but your phone. And that’s just beautiful for saving admin, you know, avoiding having to chase our payments and just completing everything on site then and there. But now, because QR codes are so sexy, even your grandma knows how to use QR codes, you can literally put a QR code, you know, it pops up in ServiceM8. You present that to your client, they can scan it with their phone and immediately pay the invoice using Apple Pay and it’s just contactless. It’s mobile payments, it’s done. You can just send them an invoice and send it over to your accounting package then and there and all the job administration is done right there on site.

Ange
One of the absolute benefits of Covid is teaching us all how to use a QR code, right? You can’t go anywhere without QR code. So I think it’s a great application. And what, sorry? And Zoom? Yeah. And Zoom. Yeah. . Hundred percent. It’s been great having you guys both here today. We clearly are huge supporters of ServiceM8 in general. You are definitely one of our favorites. This simplicity of your product is really, really important to trade business owners. And for anyone who’s listening, if you have not got a job management system in your trade business, please stop and start asking questions around what is the right one for you? And just get on board. Paper is not the way anymore. Technology must be the underlying factor to your trade business. If you wanna be efficient, be streamlined, and be profitable. So get on board.

Andy
Yeah. Guys, it’s been great having you here and I can’t wait to head back up to NT and hang out with you guys. And Darren, I was gonna say we should go fishing together and I was gonna come and hang with you, but I reckon maybe you should come and hang with me by the sounds of it. After our talk at the beginning. , we got more Yeah.

Ange
Than a local.

Darren
I got a water watch, sometimes I catch fish.

Ange
Can’t wait to see the pictures.

Andy
Fantastic guys. Great chatting with you.

Michael
Thank you so much for having us.