From ‘van life’ to award-winning trade business owner, this tradie has done it all – Guest starring Tom Martin, Lifestyle Tradie member & owner of ‘Water Tight Canberra’

Ange
Absolutely. It sure is. Basically, Tom knows his way around business and on a job site, and he is here to let us in on his secrets to staffing, team culture, sales processes, and his journey, since joining Lifestyle Tradie 18 months ago.

Andy
I’d like everyone to welcome the big and only Tom. How are we, mate?

Tom
Yeah, good. Andy, thanks for uh, having me on the show.

Andy
Mate. It’s always a big welcome for a big serious guy. So mate, pump to have you here today, let’s kick it off with some basics. You know, the one question we like to ask so many people is what made you decide to start your own trade business?

Tom
Sure. Look, I suppose. If I look at it really from, from being a kid, my old man, he was a sales rep back when I sort of grew up. Yeah. And I think he was always quite, um, envious of his friends that had trade businesses. He saw them having a little bit of freedom that he didn’t have. And, um, you know, maybe later on in life that started accruing things, you know, a bit of, a bit of wealth behind them and, and that sort of thing. And, um, and so I guess if Dad had his Tom again, he probably would’ve done a trade and, and got into a trade business. And, um, not that he ever pushed me or anything like that. I, I think he probably did encourage it and, you know, as a, as a result it sort of ended up rubbing off, I guess.

Andy
Yeah. That’s awesome. And we talk a lot on the show about the average tradie and when they actually start, and normally it’s, you know, when they leave year 10, especially back in our day, but now a lot of them are going on to high school. But you know, there, there’s that issue. When you are learning, you are learning with a boss, you can be a great tradie. You’re taught to be a great tradie, but a lot of the time we’re not taught to be a really good business owner, and that’s a real problem.

Ange
Yeah, absolutely. There’s some stats out there that indicate that a lot of people or trade business owners maybe do two to three months of research before starting their business. Like maybe listening to a podcast like this one. Yes. But it really only scratches the surface if, um, of what you need to know.

Andy
Yeah. And I just wanted to say, Tom, I know you went down a different path and you even gained some business and accounting certifications before you started your business. So can you walk us through why you went down that route and how you feel it’s benefited you over the years?

Tom
Yeah, sure. So I was one of those 16 year olds. I hated school and, um, and I, I, I never did very well when I was there. Mm-hmm. . So, you know, I, I came outta school and, um, and I got straight into my trade. And by the time I finished my Cert for plumbing, I was getting high distinctions and distinctions. I was nailing the content and, and I was feeling really good. And, and it made me realize, You know, given the opportunity and, and where I want to learn things, you know, I felt like there was not much standing in my way. I could have done just about anything as long as I wanted to learn it. And it was the first time in my life I’d probably felt that way. I considered doing further study, maybe going into uni and doing an engineering degree or, or something along those sort of lines. And then, um, a family friend of mine, there were a couple who ran in business. Getting towards the end of their plumbing career. And they said, oh, if I have my time again, I wish I’d done some business training right at the start.

Andy
Wow.

Tom
You know, would’ve set me on the, on the right foundation.

Andy
Yeah.

Tom
And so I took that advice and, and I went in and I did a cert for in small business management. Um, and then I followed that up with a cert for business. Um, and I did that after work, like you would with your cert for plumbing. You, you sort of just continued rolling on two afternoons a week. And during that time, I actually was building a business plan for, for my future business and, and putting it all together. I had a marketing plan and a HR plan and all the little bits that go with it. And then I set up my business and I started running. I ran for two years, um, put on my first apprentice, won a few contracts, and, uh, and then we decided, me and my, my girlfriend at the time, um, decided we were gonna go and do a 12 month trip traveling around Australia in a van. And I’m the sort of person who can’t just sit still. So during that trip I actually signed up for a cert war in accounting. And,

Ange
And why not?

Tom
Maybe. Yeah. Every second day I did about an hour’s work or something like that and I think by the end of the trip I’d finished the cert war and I’d started some subjects towards a diploma.

Andy
No, that’s absolutely huge because when we traveled around Australia, I just drank tins and surfed and fished for the whole 13 months . So mate, that hat’s off to you to up to you doing a course.

Ange
Absolutely awesome.

Tom
Yeah. And I guess one, one of the big things I took outta doing both of those courses, if I’m being honest, is um, you do your cert for plumbing, right? And you, you get this idea in your head of what a CERT is for. And I, I was doing these courses and next thing you know, I’m getting a certificate arriving in the, in the letter box saying you, you’ve just finished a CERT for and I thought that there is no way that a cert foreign business or a cert foreign accounting is equal to a trade. Um, you know, a cert for in, in plumbing the, the amount of effort and amount of study you need to do and, and all of that sort of stuff, but not, not not devaluing the skills that I learned from it, but it certainly, you know, to, to think, oh, I did a cert for, while driving around Australia. I certainly did a lot of fishing and a lot of drinking and a lot of surfing. But, um, yeah, this, this was, it was the odd hour here or there, and then we got to the end of the course and I’d, uh, I’d actually filled the year and I’d finished that stuff.

Ange
Did I hear you talk about the fact that you went into a Telstra Business Award too and won?

Tom
We did, yes. Um, yeah, so in 2019 we won a National Telstra Business Award, so we were, I think there were 20,000 businesses that were entered into the awards that year. And, uh, I think there were four businesses that walked away with the national awards. So we walked out with the small and something or other business award.

Andy
Mate. That is absolutely huge. That is awesome.

Ange
Absolutely. So, Tom, in your journey, what would you say has personally been the most challenging aspect of being a trade business owner?

Tom
There’ve been a couple of big struggles that I’ve had, um, or not, not struggles, a big, big hurdle that I’ve sort of had to jump over. One was I, I really wanted to get the right job management software. I spent, I don’t know if it was one or two years. Um, and I, I had a trial in just about every software that was out there, and I, I really wanted, I knew I wanted to use a hundred percent of it, or 90% of the software’s capabilities. And so I did a lot of research. I’d signed up for one product. We were just, you know, spent three months building the backend of it, the pre-build and all of that. And then we got right up to the day we were meant to go live. And I candidly pulled the pin, I realized it wasn’t gonna be as efficient for my tradesman. Ultimately efficiency on your tradesman is where you’re gonna make the real difference and where it’s gonna get easier. So eventually we did, after many, many iterations, trials and things, we decided to go as service mode. And, and I’m a, I’m a huge believer in service mode. I really think they understand how a business, our service business, runs and, and they, they have a lot of automation. They make it really easy for the tradesman. And I, I reckon I get at least 15, 20 minutes per day extra outta my tradesman than some of the guys using different software. And, and if you add that up over the course of the year, I think it’s huge.

Ange
Time is expensive.

Tom
Yeah, that and, uh, and learning to do, uh, drain relining. Yeah, we certainly had a few good challenges along the way there. Um, I, I think definitely, I remember one job with about $20,000 worth of stock pulled out on someone’s line, just drawing in the sun. Um, cuz we had three shots that went wrong. Um, but on the fourth one we got it and, and we learned a lesson and we moved on. So, um, yeah, it’s, that was an interesting road, those first six months.

Andy
Yeah, exactly. And I, and I think, um, talking about the job management platform, back in the old days, you hear me say that sounds so old, old now, but it used to take six months to trial, um, a new job management platform, six months to set it up, six months to trial it. And then you realize it was shit and you had to start again. You know, but how times have changed and service made and a few of the products that are out now are so good. So if you don’t have the right job management program for you, yes, it can be very costly in the end cuz it can save you so much time but you know, most trade business owners, you know, you go out on your own and it’s just such a hard gig. You, you’re wearing all the hats. You go to bed thinking about it, dreaming about the business. You never seem to have any time. It’s overwhelming and you think, what am I doing here? I wanted family time and I’ve got none. I’m just busy, busy, busy. So how have you personally struck such an awesome work-life balance? I, I hear a little whisper that you are planning to sail around the world with your family . That is crazy.

Ange
That sounds amazing.

Andy
Yeah.

Tom
Yeah. So yeah, we did, um, me and my wife Belinda, we did maybe about two or three years ago set the, um, what do they call it? A big hairy, audacious goal or whatever.

Ange
Yeah, absolutely.

Tom
Um, set, set that, and we said, all right, we’re in our 40th year of life. We’re gonna say, oh, by whether it’s the world, or do a 12, 12 to 24 month trip with the family we got. And we, yeah, we have been, we, we decided at the time, no matter what we were gonna do this, that didn’t matter if we were gonna wrap up the business, sell the business, bring in business partners, put on a business manager, no matter what, we were gonna hit that goal. And, um, you know, that goal is approaching faster than I would’ve thought I was about to say.

Ange
When is that, Tom?

Andy
Yeah.

Tom
Uh, we, I’ve got another four years left. Okay. So, um, yeah.

Ange
You’re a baby.

Tom
The good news on it was that, um, you know, for all of those options, putting a manager in, putting a business partner in, you know, it’s, it’s all the same thing. It’s systemizing, it’s making a business that’s automated, you know, and, and making a business. So whether we wanted to sell or bring partners in or whatever, we could do it.

Andy
So, Well, that’s the thing, the Lifestyle Tradie motto is to have the freedom to choose.

Ange
Nice. Absolutely. So right now I feel like you’ve almost gone the other way around and you’ve really thrown yourself into the community of trade. Just in general, I understand that you’ve joined the Strata Community Association Board, your MPA Act Board and Master Plumbers Australia and New Zealand Chairman. So what’s your involvement in these associations and in your mind, is there merit for others to perhaps do the same?

Tom
Yeah, sure. So I started on the board. I, uh, I noticed a gas licensing change that happened in the ACT and I got fairly involved with the then CEO and he ended up tapping me on the shoulder and saying, look, come and come and join the board. So I, I think I was about 25, I was putting new into business and I thought of joining up and, and off we went. And there’s isn’t, in those earlier days as a, as a sort of a newer board member. The real skills I got out of it was, you know, learning to actually interpret financial statements. I, I’d done my accounting course, I knew how to write a financial statement, but actually interpreting them. I was sitting next to guys who ran huge businesses, could look at a financial statement and pick out the nuances just right then and there. And, and that was really amazing, you know, and doing a bit of strategic planning and um, and those sort of things. Learning the intricacies of the industry and licensing and standards and water and sewer authorities who’s responsible for what. And, uh, and then, you know, learning a bit about governance and, and what’s required around that. I then took on the role of president of the ACT Association. Um, and, and again, that learning sort of continued where, you know, I, I was, I was meeting with ministers on a fairly regular basis. You know, I was working with teams at public servants to make change and, and that sort of thing. I was getting media experience, um, getting on the TV and radio and, and getting that opportunity to, to get a bit of experience around that. And I was networking. I’ve, you know, I, I could call any number of people, whether it’s the, the head of the CIT or the head of the ABCB plumbing department and, and, um, you know, that there’s so many people who I’ve met through these meetings and networks that a lot of them I’d consider friends or people I could go to for advice.

Ange
Yeah, I love that you’ve really become heavily involved in kind of that sector because us in trade in general here, all around Australia and New Zealand really need voices we need young, hungry, educated, you know, trade business owners who really wanna create change in some of these policies and and speak on behalf of the trade industry. So I can imagine it was really eye-opening as to perhaps how backwards some of our policies are and therefore how you can understand them and help create that change. So living in the ACT I imagine also does help, but obviously we all know it doesn’t really matter where you live. Someone can literally put their hand up and actually assist in this instance.

Andy
Yeah, it’s huge. And, and um, I just find it really interesting that you went to school and you hated studying. You wouldn’t do anything. And as soon as you left school, you found what you love. Yes. And then you’re studying, you’re joining boards and communities like you, jumping into everything.

Ange
Yeah. He threw himself in.

Andy
And yeah. You’ve been a huge success, um, along the way as well. Cause I know that some people sitting out there listening, going, wow, he is on the Master Plumbers Association, he’s in the Strata Community Association. They’re probably thinking to themselves, oh, does that filter into work? What does that mean? How does it sort of work for you, mate?

Tom
Yeah. So it does, um, I guess by being on top of the industry and liking the knowledge side of things there, um, ultimately I think it helps you to build a really strong business. Yeah. Um, you, you know, um, things are coming up and it’s not that you’re with, you would withhold that information from other members or other plumbers or anything like that, but it’s just that you’ve sat in on all these meetings and you’re hearing it. Yeah. Now I had a lot to do with, um, improving the backflow standard in the ACT valves weren’t getting tested and, and that sort of thing. By knowing that or by being constantly exposed to backflow, we prepared our business in the back end, you know? Yeah. We were, um, you know, making sure that our trucks had backflow kits in them and, and that sort of thing. And, that’s just one example. Couple of the things we’ve done.

Ange
I’m sure you actually sit on the forefront of a lot of key industry issues that are being faced by every trade business owner of one right now is clearly staff. We actually have, as you well know, a huge tradie shortage in this country. And you’ve mentioned, Tom in the past, that you feel like you’ve really nailed your staffing solution and culture. How have you done this? Can you share that with our audience?

Tom
Yeah, sure. Um, yeah, we, we did, I did have a bit of a realization light bulb moment recently, um, where I felt we’ve always thought that we had, um, a good team culture and, um, we’ve always believed that. But I had, uh, we’ve had the last three employees I think we’ve had, have been recommendations from our staff.

Ange
Fantastic.

Tom
Coming on board, and just this week I’ve had someone, the, the same person he messaged me on my website. He, um, he sent an online, uh, form in, we, we diverted into our website. He sent his resume in. He then called me on my mobile phone, however he got that and he sent me an email and, um.

Andy
Sounds good.

Ange
Absolutely.

Tom
He’s chasing me down. And, and it was, it was the phone call that. Got me. I spoke to him on the phone and, uh, and he said, oh, I, I work at a, uh, one of my staff, um, works part-time at a supermarket, one of our apprentices. And he said, I’ve been working with him for years and he has never had a bad day. He’s only ever got great things to say about the company. And, he just absolutely loves it. And I wanna be a part of that. And I said, well, we’re not really at the point right now where we’re looking for someone, but we do know, um, my, my longest standing employee, Andrew, is, uh, about to go and start his own business. You know, probably at the end of June, start of July, we’ll be, uh, we will be looking. And he said, yep, that’s fine. I’ve got a job. Just keep me in mind and I want a phone call then. And, um, and that’s, he’s actually gonna wait for us as well. So, yeah.

Andy
That’s huge, mate. That’s unreal. And I, you know, I’ve, we’ve talked at length with you about how great your culture is in your business, but like, I wanna talk to you about, you know, before you joined a Lifestyle Tradie you had a killer business, things were going well. Just give us a snapshot of what your business was like before Lifestyle Tradie.

Tom
Yeah, sure. So look, we definitely had a good business. Um, you know, we had a team of seven on the tools with two VAs in the office. We were running out of a warehouse. Um, we’d won the National Telstra Business Award. Um, we had a really good, strong team culture. We were well systemized. We ran very efficiently with minimal marketing expense and, and a team of three VAs, one of which is my longest standing employee. Sorry, that’s two VAs. Yep. Um, and, . And since inception, we had constant growth of about one person every year. Um, and we were, we were making a reasonably good profit, I guess. Um, yeah, you know, we were happy with what we were, we were making.

Andy
Yeah. So, mate, I wanna ask you this, because this is the thing that I find really interesting is that, you know, you had a good business, you’d won awards, you had good teams, you were growing, everything was going great. And I find that with Lifestyle Tradie, I have a lot of people that come to us that are doing very well in business and they sort of had this feeling of, oh Andy, we think Lifestyle Tradie is amazing, but we are doing amazing things. I just dunno if the value’s in it. And you may even have thought a little bit like that when you and I were chatting the first day. So what I want you to do, cause I know you’ve been with us for 18 months now. I want you to talk to anyone out there that may have an incredible business already and was incredibly similar to what you had and what Lifestyle Tradie has done for you over these last 18 months.

Tom
Yeah. Yeah, sure. So, I dunno if you even remember Andy, I, I came along to an event maybe in 2016 or something like that, 2017. Yeah. And wasn’t exactly that boat where I, I sort of thought, ah, it looks great, but maybe we don’t need it. Or, yeah. We’ve got that business knowledge behind us already. Mm-hmm. life was a bit hectic. We had our second daughter, we had a fair bit of stress and, and I’ve always been able to cope with stress, but I, I just knew life would be a bit better. Yeah. And we also, I was starting to lose control of the work-life balance. I was being forced into doing more and more Saturdays catching up on invoicing and as much as I always like working hard, I don’t like being forced to work hard. I like to do it on my turn.

Andy
Yeah, exactly.

Tom
But yeah, so since joining we’ve, we’ve now got 12 on the tools, two operations managers in our, in our local office. And Belinda, my wife’s doing our accounting for our, our sort of finance sort of things one day a week. Um, We’ve got two admin VAs and one accountant VA. I’ve split my plumbing business into two. Yeah. So we’ve got our water type Canberra, which is our, our parent business. And, um, and then Canberra Pipe Relining. We’ve tweaked all of our systems and, and these, you know, they’ve all been sort of minor tweaks, but they’ve had a huge impact on making things easier, making things smoother or more efficient, and increasing conversion rates and, and that sort of thing. And I’ve also brought in some business partners in both of the companies now, um, and yeah, that’s been excellent.

Andy
Yeah, huge. I mean, you’ve, you’ve come such a long way and I know we’re, you know, a lot of that stuff we’ve implemented. I know you and I have talked at Lance about it and um, what I just found was someone that had learnt so much and such a smart guy like yourself came, you’re a bit unsure. Four years later, you came back and said, Andy, I need this. You came in and I feel you were a little bit unsure as well, but as soon as you came in and you met our community and you saw what we did and how we went about it, you’re right. You had a good business but those extra percentages that we helped tweak and change and helped you organize, made a dramatic change for your business, which we’re absolutely stoked we could be a part of. So,

Tom
I would add to that if I could, when I joined Lifestyle Tradie, I very much had a 12 month intention. I was there, I was gonna learn everything in 12 months. I was gonna finish all your online courses and I was gonna get to the end of that 12 months. And, and that was me done. You know, you weren’t gonna see another sent out.

Andy
I love that.

Ange
I love the plan.

Andy
Yeah, I know.

Tom
And then, uh, and then since then, since being a part of it, I’ve, I’ve really realized it’s, um, it’s kind of like software. When you invest in software, it’s not about how much it costs you, it’s how much it saves you. Yeah. And you only need to make a very small tweak in your business to save the cost of the membership and uh, and if I keep making little tweaks and they keep saving me that amount, then I, I can keep justifying the expense and as much as I enjoy the beers as well.

Andy
Yeah, exactly mate. We’ve had a couple of quiet beers together on a couple of Saturday nights on my stay, but no mate. That’s great. So I know a lot of trade business owners are out there listening now. So what would be your top three tips to any struggling trade business owner, that is, listening.

Tom
Yeah, I guess, um, look, always do right by your staff. I think if you do right by your staff, they’ll do right by you. And yeah, genuinely put their interest first and then don’t ever think you know it all. Always continue investing in yourself and continue learning and, and that sort of thing. And, um, and then set your own ethics and stick to them when you, when you go out there, know that you’ve gotta make a profit to run a business. It’s part of running a business.

Andy
And yeah, and I think another thing you mentioned earlier, we’ll add to that is being a very good communicator and a good networker. And I would have to say you were the king at that. So that is absolutely awesome. I know a lot of people out there listing you be like, yes, that’s exactly what we need to do.

Ange
I’m aware that you’ve actually been working really hard to develop a sales process based on your Lifestyle Tradie sales training course. So without maybe giving too much away of your secrets, can you break down your new sales strategy?

Tom
Yeah, sure. Um, and it was, it was a big thing for me to get over, um, debating with myself as to what was better, um, doing charge billing or upfront pricing. And I, I ended up, I’d interviewed 50 of my customers, I think 46 of them. I explained the two different processes, and 46 of them came back and said upfront pricing was definitely what they would prefer. Even though they understood it was gonna be slightly more expensive. Yeah. And the way that it was gonna make our business run, you know, a lot smoother, it was gonna take a lot of headaches outta the business for us. But actually moving when you, when you’ve got a team of 12 guys, um, moving that team from doing charge and, and all the processes from admin to, to everything to doing flat rate. It’s been something I’ve tried to do for about two years now. Yep. Uh, and we went live Monday this week. We are now 100% flat rate for our residential customers and that’s, And, and we, yeah, we, we found that, um, I, I’ve looked at a lot of sales training and, um, and there were a lot of Americanized things. I’ve paid for a few courses, which halfway through we went, no, this isn’t water tot, we didn’t feel it aligned with our ethics and, and things like that. And we found the, uh, the Lifestyle Tradie, um, sales training course was really good. It’s helped our team a lot in getting across and, and understanding how to provide that next level service. And, and it really is about providing the customer with that little bit more service, more so than anything. What I find really interesting about that sentence is so many times trade business owners come and join Lifestyle Tradie, and they say to us, oh, but Andy that won’t work for us. It doesn’t work in my city, or whatever. And it’s not until they watch the videos and understand how to apply it to their business and perhaps still even push back. And then they come to a live event and they are absorbed by a community of over 150, 200 other trade business owners. And when it’s not us, not Andy and Ange but somebody else saying, actually, mate, I thought the exact same thing as you. And 10 years ago I did exactly that and applied this new pricing structure. And here are the benefits for me. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And all of a sudden, when you hear that enough from so many other trade business owners doing or challenged by the same concept straight away as a business, you’ve gotta go, oh my God, I’ve really got to think about how to do this inside my business.

Andy
But, I think the problem with this whole flat rating is there’s some rogue trade businesses out there that are taking the piss. And the Lifestyle Tradie Sales training course is all about giving the customer the option. And I know a lot of our listeners have heard about it, but there’s too many people out there that their line in the sand of what they think is acceptable is almost on robbery. And that really shits me to be honest. And, and that does affect people who go, oh my God, we can’t do that. But it’s just quoting. That’s all it is. It’s quoting a job and you can quote that job at 10 bucks if you want to, and that’s Tana industry. So mate, that is absolutely great stuff. Now I always like to play a little game with our guests, so I’m gonna fire at you. Three questions mate. You have up to 30 seconds to answer each of them. Are you ready?

Tom
Let’s go.

Andy
So mate, if you didn’t become a tradie, what job do you think you would’ve ended up doing?

Tom
A fireman.

Ange
Fireman. Being a fireman too.

Andy
He’s better about that. That is awesome. And what do you love most about being a Lifestyle Tradie member?

Tom
Ah the community. I’ve, I’ve caught up with many of the members of, I think at least five or six of the community members, I’ve actually gone caught up in their warehouse. They’ve come to my warehouse. We’ve had laptops open, we’ve shared marketing materials, and you know, you go to these Lifestyle Tradie events, the R&R events. And you, um, you literally have a room full of friends that you can go and talk to anyone in that room and, and yeah.

Andy
Yeah. It’s huge for those out there. You know, you get a couple of hundred tradies from around Australia, from all parts of Australia and New Zealand. The best of the best, and everyone is just so open and giving, aren’t they, mate?

Tom
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You don’t, you don’t feel like anyone in that room is your competition. I’d feel very comfortable sharing, uh, my, my sort of deeper secrets that I wouldn’t share with just any old plumber. You know, I’m quite happy to be a lot more open with those people cause they’re with me and, and it’s a, it’s a really good community.

Ange
And it literally only takes one sentence that you might hear from another trade business owner over a beer perhaps that could actually make huge change. 50 grand, a hundred grand, half a million dollar changes inside your business. We’ve seen it time and time again, so yes, I love the fact that everyone’s so open about sharing what’s actually going on inside their trade business so that you can make these decisions, you know, in, in arms with other people. So I love that response. Tom, thanks so much for joining us here today. It’s always great to have our members share even what’s going on inside their business and how everything has created change. Always great to share your journey.

Andy
Yeah. Especially a superstar like you, mate, you dead set arn. If you are a business owner out there and you’re turning over millions of dollars and you think to yourself, Do I really need something like this? Well, I don’t know, but we have people in our group that have over 50 staff and are making over 10 million dollars. So don’t always think you are bigger and better. There’s always time for change. Those little tweaks can make a huge difference in your business. Thanks again, Tom. Can’t wait to see you at our next member event, buddy.

Tom
No worries. Thanks for having me guys.

Andy
That was awesome.

Ange
Thanks, Tom. We love getting our members on. It’s literally proof in the pudding right there. So if you are willing to learn and to accept that perhaps you just don’t know everything and are ready to roll up your sleeves, then come and join us. It is an absolute no-brainer to become a member with us at Lifestyle Tradie. You can find out more about our membership or chat directly with Andy simply by heading to www.lifestyletradie.com.au, or email us at podcast@lifestyletradie.com.au. It’s your chance to rub shoulders and talk tactics with other smart cats, just like Tom. Well, I think that’s a wrap for today, right Andy?

Andy
Yep. I think it’s knock off time. See you next week, tradies.

Ange
See you later.