Military Leadership Lessons Every Tradie Needs with Daimien Patterson

Andy
So if that sounds even remotely familiar, this episode is for you. Today, we’re joined by Daimien Patterson. Daimien started his leadership journey in the Australian Army, training at Duntroon and leading soldiers from a young age, including time in active service. 

Ange
Since then, he’s taken those leadership principles into business, building and running multiple companies with teams of over 100 people. So when he talks about leadership, accountability and building a business that actually runs without you, this isn’t theory. This is what’s been tested under real pressure. 

Andy
In this episode, we’re breaking down why most tradies tolerate poor performance and what it’s really costing them, the difference between being the boss and actually being a leader, and how to build a team that performs without you chasing them, and the mindset shift you need if you want more time, more profit and less chaos.

Ange
This one’s direct. It’s no BS, and it might be exactly what you need to hear right now. Let’s get into it. 

Andy
You’re listening to The Tradie Show. This is the podcast for trade business and contracting bosses like you who wanna lead with confidence, make more profit and create a better lifestyle. 

Ange
We’re your hosts, Andy and Angela Smith, husband & wife team and co-founders of Lifestyle Tradie. Are you ready to have some fun? 

Andy
Hell yeah! Want to cut your business costs without cutting corners? Buy4Tradies makes it simple. This is a buying group built by tradies for tradies, plumbers, sparkies, solar and aircon techs, landscapers, just to name a few. Join for free and unlock trade-only deals on materials, fuel, tools, finance, IT and heaps more. There are no contracts, no sign-up fees, just real savings with trusted national suppliers. So if you’re ready to keep more cash in your pocket and less in your overheads, jump on to buy4tradies.com.au. That’s buy, the number four, tradies.com.au, and join for free today.

All right, Daimien. Mate, we are pumped to have you here. So good to see you again. Absolute superstar. How are we today, buddy? 

Daimien
Doing great. I can’t wait to do this podcast. I’m so excited. I love Lifestyle Tradie.

Andy
Mate, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But for those of you that don’t know, you’ve led soldiers in the Australian Army, you’ve trained in Duntroon, and since then you’ve built and scaled multiple businesses with teams of over 100 people. So you’ve seen leadership under real pressure, both in the military and in business. So let’s kick it off right here. You started your leadership journey at Duntroon in the Army. What’s one lesson from that environment that taught you the most about leadership? 

Daimien
Yeah, it’s really, um, it’s quite a fascinating place. It’s quite a privilege to get selected and go there. 18 months of high intensity leadership training. You really don’t get that anywhere else.

Andy
Yeah!

Daimien
Even like a university, not- nowhere else. The one thing they really do look to do there is to teach you how to perform under pressure. 

Andy
Yeah! 

Daimien
Because they’re ultimately preparing you to lead in war, in warfare, and business can be a bit like warfare. Obviously, um, people aren’t necessarily dying, but every day is a battle, and the marketplace and customers and things are having a go at you and the next financial crisis is around the corner or no one had a pandemic in their risk management plan, but yet we had to deal with one. And what they teach you primary. I think the, the number one lesson that they teach you is stay calm no matter what and deal in facts. And so stay calm no matter what. If you lose it, right, then everyone around you will be like, “Oh,” and they just stop following you, and then they’ll lose it too. If you’re calm, they’ll be calm. If you’re like, “Hey, everyone, this is fine. We’ll get through this. Don’t worry. This is just a minor challenge. We’ll sort this out. There’ll be a solution. We’ll find it, and we’ll get it done.” You know, that’s how you’ve gotta be, no matter what. And you can be shitting yourself on the inside. 

Andy
Yeah, yeah.

Daimien
But on the outside, you know, like the, uh, the c- the graceful swan on top of the water that’s furiously paddling its feet underneath, right? You can’t see that. All you just see is the graceful. And that’s where you gotta be. So stay calm no matter what. And then the deal in facts piece is sort of the second part of that is often people make really bad decisions based on poor information. So what you gotta do is just sort of in that crisis or whatever going on and say, “Okay.” And people are gonna say things like, “Oh, the market’s collapsing. There are no clients.” Okay, well, is that true? No, it’s not true. There are clients. Like if the half the clients left the market, the other half are still there. And one of my favorite sayings in business is, “There may not be enough clients for everyone, but there’s always enough clients for us.” Right? 

Andy
Yeah.

Ange
Nice. 

Daimien
And it’s a good one. And, and when I’m talking to my teams and they’re, “Oh, it’s getting harder to find…” I said, “It may not be enough for everyone, but there’s enough for us. And how are those people that are still in the market, still looking to buy our services, how do we make sure they buy from us and not everyone else?” And so coming back to the original question, you know, stay calm and deal in facts and you’ll make really good decisions. I think most people kind of talk themselves out of it and end up quitting and giving up when they didn’t need to. 

Andy
Yeah, 100%. And, you know, going to Duntroon and becoming that leader that you are, obviously that’s helped you. But not only, a lot of people don’t realize as well, you got deployed overseas a couple of times as well. So getting that leadership from Duntroon and then being deployed overseas, can you explain a bit more about that? And is there anything you learned there that you can apply with business as well?

Daimien
Yeah, it’s a good one. Overseas, I did two deployments. I went to East Timor, I went to Iraq. East Timor had more of a frontline role. Like, there wasn’t, there wasn’t as much of an enemy, but there was an enemy that we had to go after, and, and I was regrouped into the, the quick reaction force, and on the first helicopter, you know, going after these guys whenever they were spotted. Uh, but then in Iraq, I had more of a, you know, what you used to call a FOB, which is forward operating base, and you sort of stay inside the wire, you know? 

Andy
Yeah. And- 

Daimien
But, um, what I learned about that is people are looking to be led. When things are going bad, right, people are looking for someone to take charge and just tell them what to do. And even in a really high-risk situation like that where people might die, the people are looking at you, the leader, and saying, “Make a freaking decision, what’s the plan, boss?” You know? They would say, “Okay, boss, what’s the plan? What’s going on?” And you need to know, and then you need to tell them. And often they go, “Okay.” And if you go back to the previous answer, the previous question, if you’re calm and confident, they’re gonna go, “Well, he’s calm and confident. She knows what she’s doing. Let’s go,” and they’ll follow you. I think that’s the main thing. Again, you might be sort of crapping yourself on the inside. I remember when the first time I actually got ordered into a sort of dangerous situation like that, we actually had to go and pursue an enemy. I remember just sort of having a conversation with myself going, “Okay, first of all, I might die here. My affairs are in order. I’ll be okay.” The second thing that came into my mind is there is absolutely no way that I’m not gonna do this, because just the humiliation of refusing to go on the mission was enough to motivate me to, to just do it anyway. Like, I’d rather die in combat than be humiliated or labeled a coward. But I think in business, there’s also pressures as well about, you know, we don’t want our business to go under. We don’t wanna quit and go back to the job that we had before sort of thing. You use that as a driver as well on the inside and go, “Well, failure’s not an option. I’m going forward anyway, so I better get my act together and I, and I better have a good plan.” But, uh, yeah, people are looking to be led, and so if you’re just standing there not saying anything, not doing anything, no plan, then they’re gonna go somewhere else. They’re probably gonna quit and go work for someone else. So be confident, have a plan, and give direction, and people will follow you. 

Andy
Yeah. Love that. Love that. 

Ange
So you’ve clearly had a great deal of experience in the military that you’ve been able to bring to business, not just yourself, but to be able to educate others. What does the military get right when it comes to building teams and leaders that perhaps small trade businesses tend to get wrong?

Daimien
Yeah, it’s a great question. The military is very, very good at building team structures. You know? So you’ve got teams of teams. So for example, the basic capability brick of the Australian Army is the raw infantry section, right? And it’s got about eight guys in it, uh, and girls now, and, um, and there’s a standard structure. Now, there’s something like 256 of those sections in the Australian Army Uh-huh. And every single one of them is structured identically, got the same equipment, got the same appointments, section commander to IC, you know, and then they replicate that. And so that’s the first thing. They got this, this teams of teams structure, and, you know, three sections make a platoon, and a platoon has a little headquarters of about three or four people, and then three platoons make a company, and three companies or four companies make a battalion and, and so on and so on. And that’s, that’s, that’s the way they do it. And because they get that little capability building brick right, they can then scale. Now any trade business can do the same thing. You know, you can have trade teams instead of individuals, and you might have, you know, a senior tradie, a junior tradie, and an apprentice in the team, you know? Or you might have a couple of laborers in there as well, whatever it is that, that works in your model. And so first of all, you can then scale and you’ve always got… When you do that, you always have someone who’s really experienced that you can trust because they’ve come through the ranks to become the team leader. And then you’ve also got a position where the new guy can actually just come in on day one and not have the whole world on his shoulders, and just stands there taking orders and watching the more senior people execute the task. And a lot of trade business, if you’ve never worked in an environment that runs that way, and you may not come to that conclusion that that’s the way you should do it. And I see that with a lot of businesses, especially trade businesses, who’ve just got individuals out there. Everyone’s an individual doing their own thing, and there’s no career progression. There’s no, you can’t set people up for success by having them understudy someone else, you know, and there’s all sorts of things. And that’s probably the second part that they do, then do very well, is they give you a career. Most people have no plan for their professional career, right? They’re just standing in here, and they’re looking at what options are in front of them, and if someone offers them something better than what they’ve got now, they’ll move to it, right? Whereas what the Army does really well is they come in and they say, “Right, you are a rifleman. You are an Ordnance Corps logistician. You are a signaller,” whatever. And then they say, “And here’s the career path. You start at this rank, and you do these jobs. And then you’ll get promoted to this rank, and you’ll do these jobs. And then you get promoted to this rank, and you’ll do these jobs. And you’ll get a pay rise at every level, and then you’ll work your way around the organization. And one day you could be the Chief of the Army if you really want to.” And so when someone comes into the Army, they give them a career plan. They give them a path to follow, not just the job they’re doing right now, but the whole way, and so they stay, right? And they go, “Right, well, I have a future here.” When someone joins your business, if you don’t have teams of team structure. If you don’t have a career path for them, if you can’t say to them, “Listen. Hey, mate, you might be the apprentice right now, or you might be the laborer right now, or you might be the admin person right now, but here’s where you could be. And one day, if you really want to, you could become the general manager of this thing and be running the whole show.” And then even if you’re not big enough now, you can still have a vision to grow to that big and show that vision to them and say, “Listen, we might be small now, but this is what we’re gonna be in the future. We’re gonna have 10 trade teams. We’re gonna have an office. We’re gonna have a marketing team,” you know, da, da, da, da, da. And then people go, “Wow.” The military does that really, really well. Teams of team structure, and they give people a career path that they can follow through that structure. 

Andy
And I, you know, I know you were a tradie back in the day, did a little bit of landscaping and that with your brother, but, you know, that’s interesting that you say that. So what’s the difference between a tradie who’s stuck in the business every day and one who’s actually leading it? But you sort of answered that just then, didn’t you? Someone that’s leading has a career path as well. Is that what you say? 

Daimien
I think so, and I think the difference, if you’re stuck in your business, it’s probably because you’ve just created a job for yourself.

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
What most people… And I was even just yesterday talking to some friends who are in business, and they’re a little bit stuck, and I said, “What you got to realize is that you are now an entrepreneur, a business person, whether you like it or not. That’s what you really are. You were formerly a plumber. You were formerly a carpenter. That’s what you used to be. That’s your skill set. That might be what your business does, but you are more than that now. You now need to understand marketing. You now need to understand sales. You now need to understand bookkeeping and budgeting, HR, recruitment processes, performance management. Like, all of that stuff you need to understand now, and you need to have a vision for the whole thing and how you’re gonna grow it.” And so the difference, I think, between those who grow and those who are stuck is that realization that, “Hey, I’m, I’m not just a self-employed technician anymore. I’m now a leader, and I’m a business leader. I’m an entrepreneur, and I need to grow this thing, and I need to have a plan to grow it. I need to take people on the journey with me.” And once you shift your mindset, all you start asking yourself the right questions and start doing the right things. You know, if you’re, if you just see yourself as an electrician that’s got a couple of people helping you, then you’re just gonna keep spending your time on doing hands-on frontline tasks. When you go, “No, I’m a business person. Okay, right now I need to do a bit of frontline stuff because I don’t have the guys and the team to do it yet, but my goal is to get myself off the tools.” And in the trade business, that should always be the goal, get off the tools. But the question is how do you get off the tools? And then of course, I would join Lifestyle Tradie that’s planned for you guys, first of all. But because that’s ultimately the problem that you guys solve, right? Get in there and how do you have a lifestyle while you’re a tradie? Well, it’s, it’s build a business that you can get off the tools, and then have, have that business running itself mostly so that you can then go on the holidays you wanna take and take the kids to, to school if you- that’s what you wanna do, and things like that. So the leader mindset, the entrepreneurial mindset, once you make that realization, you’ll start thinking about totally all the right things. 

Ange
So as a trade business owner, a lot of tradies we speak with do exactly that. They have this intention to grow a team and to get bigger, to grow, be profitable, streamline, all the things we teach. That being said, when you talk about a hierarchy, you have apprentices, tradespeople, leading hands, and whatnot, so now you’re leaning on these people to become managers inside your business and help you direct the people. I’ve actually heard you say once, Damo, that there are no bad workers, only bad managers. When is it actually the owner’s fault that things aren’t perhaps going so well? 

Daimien
Uh, okay, so this is… You know, people hear that. That, that saying comes from the Army, “There’s no bad soldiers, only bad officers.” And then in business, I say, “There are no bad workers, only bad managers.” And people initially scoff at that. They go, “That guy’s an idiot. He’s got no idea.” “Clearly he’s never run a business.” Yeah. “Of course there’s bad workers. You know, bloody Johnno, Jesus Christ.” “What about that bloke I sa- ” You know. But you gotta just bear with me here as I explain this concept, right? So of course there’s bad workers, right? But if you’ve got a bad worker, it’s your fault that they’re in your business in the first place.

Andy
Yes.

Daimien
Because you decide what your processes are, you decide therefore what sort of person you need to recruit to execute those processes. So if you’ve got someone working for you, it’s ’cause you chose them, right? 

Ange
Agreed. 

Daimien
And you probably didn’t do your homework and go, “Okay, what is this job? What tasks do we actually need this person to do?” And then what… I call it QEPA, right? Q-E-P-A. What qualifications, experience, and personal attributes do we want this person to have to do, not only do the, the technical tasks, like deliver the service, but also to, to fit into our culture, to turn up on time, to have integrity, you know, to not let people down. So that’s your first mistake. You hired an idiot, and it’s all your fault because you got to choose them, right? And then the next mistake is how you then inducted and trained them. Right? So if they’re not following all the company policies, it’s probably ’cause you, they don’t know what they are, right? Yeah. And, and if they’re not behaving in a, in a good, positive way, it’s because you haven’t set a culture, you haven’t set those expectations again. So again, you, the bad manager, have failed. And then if someone then comes in and they do their work incorrectly, they’re making mistakes, they’re upsetting clients, they’re upsetting their fellow workers, and you as the manager lack the courage, right? And I say, as I say, “Don’t be a pussy.” Uh, you go and say, say what you need to say to the person. Yeah. Do it respectfully, but don’t put the conversation off. Just get it done. You gotta have the courage to get it done, and performance manage that person. Give them their performance warnings, give them their retraining, give them their final notice and say, “Fix or you’re out.” And then ultimately have the courage to sack them. If you’ve got a bad worker in your business, it’s your fault because you chose them. You chose them and you failed to account for them. And, and that… And when you think about it too, that’s the one thing that you can, that you can actually influence. You can’t necessarily change people. You can influence and change them a little bit, but you can’t… The one thing you can though is choose who’s in your life, and that rule applies not just in your business, but also in your relationships, who you choose as friends, who you choose as a partner, you know, and, uh, what organizations you choose to associate with and things like that. So when you explain it like that, people go, “Ah, I get it now. Okay, it’s all my fault.” 

Andy
So  if you, if you are a tradie, you know, there’s a lot of tradies listening right now, what would you say? You know, for a tradie listening now that’s really frustrated with their team, what’s it really costing them to keep tolerating this poor performance?

Daimien
Well, one of my favorite sayings, and I’ve got a lot of them, but One of my favorite sayings is every day you have the wrong person in a position, you’re blocking the right person from taking it. 

Andy
Yes. 

Daimien
Okay? Every day you got the wrong person in a position, you’re blocking the right person from taking it. So there is a, an opportunity cost, right? I’ve got someone who’s not performing, and I’m losing money ultimately at the end of the day because I’m losing productivity, I’m having other staff members leave because they don’t like him. I’ve got other staff members who are dropping their performance because they’re watching Johnno on their left do an average job and get paid the same as them.

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
So why should they work any harder when Johnno’s crappy work’s being tolerated? You know, so there, there’s sort of second and third order effects all through your business whenever you have someone who’s not a performer And so when you think about it like that, you’ve gotta take action. I remember I had a chat with one of my managers one day, and she’s incentivized, and, uh, and I said to… like, she’s on commission. She’s got a commission structure as part of the package. And, and I said, “Right, if that person came into your house once a month on the first day of every month and went and grabbed jumped on your computer and went to your online banking and transferred 10 to 20 grand over to their own personal bank account, how long would you tolerate that for?” And she looked at me, facing, “What sort of question is that?” I said, “Just answer the question.” She goes, “Well, I wouldn’t tolerate it at all.” I said, “Right. Would you call the police?” And she goes, “Yes, I’d call the police.” I said, “Well, that’s how much that mofo’s costing you.” Because with your commission structure, if that bloke did his job right, you know, every month, you’d be getting paid 10 to 20 grand more yourself.

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
And then she went, “Mm, I get your point now, Daimien.” And that’s the, that opportunity cost concept. So what I’d say to the tradies listening now, if you’ve got someone who’s not performing, quantify the damage they’re doing in terms of the money you’re not making, right? And then what you need to do is, again, don’t be a pussy, right? Go and have the conversation with that person, and you need to be very clear with them. Write it all down first, and then say, “Okay, we need to talk,” and say, “The following things are unacceptable.” Give them the old counseling sandwich, you know? Mm. Positive stuff first. “Okay, this is good. You’ve done all this well.” Yeah. “But we need to talk about these things, and if you don’t fix these things, I’m gonna have to sack you.” 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
I have… And then go about it. And, and that, just say that. And one, another favorite expression is, “Unfortunately, your actions are forcing me to take this action.” When you sit them down like that and you say, “Listen, we have to have this chat, unfortunately. I wish we didn’t have to have this chat, but we have to because, unfortunately, you’re not doing the right things that I need you to do.” 

Andy
Love it. Love it.

Daimien
“And I respect you for that.” You don’t have to belittle them or anything like that. Give them credit for their positive things, but then hold them to account for their negatives, and they’re gonna ship up or ship out. Performance warning, 14 days to rectify. They don’t rectify, second performance warning, 14 days to rectify. They don’t rectify, fired. Yep. Right? And have your paperwork, have your warnings written, take it to Fair Work. You’ll be fine.

Andy
Love it. Love it.

Ange
Fair enough. 

Andy
Imagine it’s a year from now. You wake up, the sun’s out, and instead of rushing out the door stressed, you’re taking your time and enjoying your coffee. Your business is running smoothly, your cash flow is steady, and your weekends are actually yours. Sounds good, doesn’t it? But if you’re like most tradies I’ve met, that feels miles away from the reality right now. I’m Andy Smith, and I know the grind. I know the late nights, the endless stress, and the feeling that your business owns you, not the other way round. But I also know what it takes to turn that around, and I wanna show you Let’s jump on a game plan call. It’s just 10 minutes. We’re gonna cut through the noise, figure out what’s holding you back, and build a clear roadmap to get you to that better place. So go to lifestyletradie.com.au, tap the game plan call button, or scroll down and lock in a time that suits. You’re closer than you think to building the business you’ve always wanted. One call can change everything. Let’s make it happen 

Ange
So with a lot of these trade business owners who do have a team, they are clearly the boss, and a lot of them would say they are automatically the leader, but it doesn’t necessarily mean people will follow them. So what’s the difference, in your opinion, about being the boss and being a leader that your team actually wants to follow?

Daimien
Yeah, absolutely. So I think the first thing, if you want a sort of quick leadership hack, before you have a conversation with one of your team members or all of them at once, whatever, ask yourself how you would wanna be spoken to. Ask yourself, “Would I appreciate being spoken to that way?” And then if you just quickly think that way, you- 90% of the time you’re gonna… it’s gonna come out right. 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
You know? And you don’t need to be an extrovert, you don’t need to be sort of loudmouth. And some of the best leaders are very quietly spoken, but what they say matters, not how they say it necessarily, you know? That’s the first thing. Anyone can lead. Just take the time to think about what you wanna say, and then say it. And if in any doubt, maybe find someone, someone else outside of your, you know, of the business that you respect as a leader and say, “Can I get some advice on, on how to, how to deal with this, with this matter?” I think that’s the first thing. And the second thing is, you know, you gotta have a vision for success. You know, no one wants to be on the footy team or the netball team or the whatever team that’s gonna be the wooden spooners for the year, you know? You’ve gotta stand up in front and say, “Our goal is to win the grand final. That’s our goal, and I make no apologies for that. If you don’t share that goal, leave now,” you know? And you gotta have the equivalent speech in your business, whatever. “Our goal is to be the number one plumbing company in Wollongong,” you know, or whatever, wherever you… You know. “And if you don’t share that goal, you need to leave. Go work for someone else,” you know? And then, that, then you start getting people focused on it. And then you’ve also got this mission with it’s a collective mission that everyone’s gonna benefit from. And then in the context of that mission, you can start getting performance out of people. Say, “Listen, we’re not gonna get to the grand final if you don’t fix this,” you know? “We’re not gonna achieve our goal if you don’t sort this out.” And, uh, and then people go, “Oh, okay,” you know? People are more likely to be, um, to change their behavior because they don’t wanna let someone else down rather than, uh, let themselves down. They’ll let themselves down every day of the week. If you want an example of that, look at all the people who join a gym and then don’t show up, right? Yeah. But then if you join as a group or you get a personal trainer, there’s someone else waiting for you at that session, so then you go, you see? So it’s human nature to not let other people down, but you’ll let yourself down every day of the week. So have a goal, collective goal for everyone, and have everyone working towards it, and you watch how quickly people turn around and shift their, shift their attitude.

Ange
Interesting.

Andy
Yeah, I definitely love that. I, I just wanna say, you’re at one of our Reignite Reunite events, our R&Rs, and you spoke about the concept called the yellow brick road. I loved this. Can you explain that a little bit more to our listeners? 

Daimien
Okay. Yellow brick road. Before I talk about the yellow brick road, I’ve gotta talk about clearing the minefield.

Andy
Yes. But that’s the bit I loved. I love the clearing the minefield bit. 

Daimien
Yeah. Right. So, well, in business, often we’re overwhelmed, right? Yeah. And, and it’s like we’ve gotta, we, we need to… We’re on one side of the field, the minefield, and we need to get to the other side, but we don’t know where the mines are. They could be anywhere, and there’s just so many. It’s all overwhelming. I don’t know where to start. But there are ways of finding mines, you know, and in the Army they use, they use like a, a little stick actually, and they put it in like a 45-degree angle into the ground, or about 30-degree angle. They just gently push it into the soil, and then it hits the side of the mine. They go, “There’s one there,” right? And then they can lift it out. They also have metal detectors and things like that. Anyway, out of sight. But what they teach them to do is rather than roll the minefield back on the edge, instead make a small lane through it. Just a small lane from start to finish that then, uh, one person, a human being, can get through that lane and get to the other side. Once you’ve done that, you’ve got a result. You’ve got something getting to the other side. And then we widen the lane, right? So then we widen the lane big enough to get a Land Rover through, and then a tank, you know, and then we make three lanes, and eventually we’ve cleaned up the whole minefield, and we’re getting to the other side, right? So in business, what does that mean? Well, in business, we need to get to the other side. What’s the other side? We need to get paid, right? So we need to get a process pumping from start to finish. Just start with one process from start to finish, okay? And, and get that working so that you’ve got money coming in. And I say to people, “That should be your most profitable product or service.” Whatever product brings in the most amount of money for the least amount of effort and resources, that’s your winner, and then we’re gonna call that the yellow brick road. ‘Cause what do they say, follow the yellow brick road and you’ll get to the Emerald City, right? So what is your most profitable product, and then map it out. Do it on the whiteboard, do it on a PowerPoint slide or whatever, and map it out by step by step by step. So the first step is usually an advertisement somewhere, right? Advertising the business, getting interested in and, and that particular service. So, you know, in a trade business it might be like a Google ad or an SEO result if someone types in whatever. How do we achieve that? Then someone’s gonna inquire, who calls, and then quoting, and all the way through to the end where we get paid. We’ve completed the job and we’ve been paid, right? So pick your most profitable product and… or service and map that out step by step. Now, every one of those steps, okay, is it meant, like you visualize the stepping stones or whatever. Every one of those steps we now need to have a procedure document for how we do that step, and then we need training for how to teach someone the procedure document how to do that. And that can be a video. You know, if it’s a practical on the site thing, like how to start the generator, someone just holds their iPhone up, hits go on the video camera and go, “Right, this is how we start the generator and turn the generator off, and we check this, we check that, we check the fuel. We always make sure that’s tight.” You know, whatever, you know. And then we process… we record the whole thing. Then we can teach anyone to do that thing, right? So then we delegate it down, we hire people, we execute it, and we follow that. And then we look to do it multi- multiple times. There’s a guy you might have heard of called Ryan Deiss, an American guy. He talks about the concept of a flywheel. So you know, like a big stone wheel that they use in a mill or in, sometimes in little kids’ cars that, you know, you’ll push it and wind it up. The… And the idea there, he says, “That’s your business process. One rotation of the wheel is your business process from start to finish.” Now, if that’s not stable, if that’s not spinning nice and smoothly and, and, and almost flawlessly at every step, if you then start spinning that faster and, and do a thousand times. You know, it’s gonna wobble and crash, right? It’s gonna fall off, you know? So when we wanna scale our business, we have to get that yellow brick road process perfect, and once it’s perfect or near perfect, and then we can scale the crap out of it, right? Because we can get other people to execute it, and they’re just gonna follow the bouncing ball. They’re gonna follow the procedure document as per the training video that they’ve done or watched and been assessed on, and then we can do it a thousand times. So to bring that back to a trade business, you know, it might, might… Well, maybe you’re like a plumber. It might be something really simple like, um, uh, installing a bidet, like, you know, bum gun thing, right? You know, people, you know, that, like, people, people love those, by the way. They do. I didn’t even know what they were until I went to the Middle East. I’m like, “How good are these?” Anyways.

Ange
That’s so funny.

Daimien
Yeah. So but that really takes very little to, to… You know, you just go in there, a little connector, and boom, boom, job done, right? But the value proposition’s great. You know, you could probably buy one for 50 bucks, a good quality one. You know, install it, 300 bucks. There, it’s a five-minute job. People are happy ’cause they’ve got a bum gun, and, and, but you make more money. So you just get that whole thing squared away. 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
And I’ll actually, I’ll tell that story ’cause I had a mate of mine who’s a refrigeration tech, and, uh, during COVID, everything came to a grinding halt. And but, you know, what do we have a shortage of in COVID? Toilet paper. Yeah. Right? And I said, “Mate, get on the front foot. Let’s do some bum guns.” And he’s like So I had one of my friends who’s a marketer, she made a great little ad, and then we started showing them in his local area, and he just started, he was just going around town installing all these things and making a few hundred bucks. And, you know, you could do several of those a day. Yeah. So the point is, just pick your most profitable product. And, sometimes it’s something you don’t actually like. Maybe, but, but tough titties. Yeah. Like, just do it, because that’s what’s gonna guarantee the success of your business. 

Ange
Love that Yeah, love that. Mm We do a lot of teaching about the seamless sales system, which actually breaks down exactly about the flow of a job, looking at profitable products and services. So I love that you talk about it in the yellow brick road, and I love the mine execution- I love the mine execution … or concept about it. It just makes complete sense, doesn’t it, to then just repeat? Yeah. Love that. Damo, you’ve built a business that has run without you. What are the first things a tradie needs, in your opinion, to put in place to start heading in the same direction? 

Daimien
Okay. There’s a thing, um, in the military called span of command, and where they say that one person can really only run about five to eight people, okay? Directly reporting to them. Once you get above that, you got a problem. And then fundamentally, if you want your business to be successful, each person, each team member produces a certain amount of productivity, right, that you can invoice out. So if you wanna be off the tools, you need to achieve a certain degree of size for a start, you know, probably to about 20 people maybe before you can… you know, if you’re taking sort of 5% off each person, then there’s 100%, you know? And then that you don’t need to work anymore. But to get to that level, you need intermediate management. You need managers, right? And so how do you get managers? So the first thing, every time you’re recruiting someone for any role, you should always be looking for management potential, leadership potential, the glint in their eye. You know, are they… Do they speak well? Are they confident? Have they been raised well? You know, are they respectful to others? Do they have a bit of drive? And then they might be starting in the junior job like an apprentice or a laborer, but you can see that one day that kid’s gonna go far, right? And so that, always recruiting leaders no matter what job you’re recruiting for, you’re looking for leaders, ’cause one day you wanna promote them up to run stuff for you, right? And people, the A players want to lead as well because they’re good at what they do, and they wanna influence everyone else, and they wanna influence how the business does things. So they wanna be in the leadership position so they can call the shots, you know? So look for leaders. That’s really, really important.

And I know in a trade business you’re looking for people who are technically competent, right? But also look for leadership potential, leadership skills so that they can then grow the business for you. And a lot of those people are the sort of people who are gonna say to you, “Hey, boss, don’t come to work. I’ve got this.” They don’t want you there ’cause they wanna run it. 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
Right? So they’re happy, they wanna run it, and they want you out of the way so they can run it, and you’re happy ’cause you’re in Bali on holidays. So do you know what I mean? Yeah. So look for leaders. That’s really important, ’cause you won’t be able to scale. You know, you need team leaders, you need division, you know, group leader management, you know, department heads, foremen, things like that, and you’ll never grow it otherwise, so look for leaders. 

Andy
Yeah, I love that, ’cause I know that a lot of us tradies have had troubles finding staff, but I mean good staff and, and sometimes there’s a lot of businesses that I’ve dealt with that have just taken anyone on. It always bites them in the ass, you know? They’re not picking the right person from the right start. You’ve talked a lot about that from the beginning, Damo. And then it’s about getting these good leaders that are happy to take this pressure off you, happy to step in, happy to step up, um, happy to run a team. And if you can do that, and we’ve got a lot of people like that, that, um, uh, with our members, they’ve built these teams now that they’ve just got this incredible team running through. And then you’ve got other people out there that are still wishy-washy, they’re still the guy wearing all the hat, they’re feeling overwhelmed, their team aren’t doing anything, and they feel like they’ve gotta do everything, and that’s because that’s the way they design their business, right? So they’ve, they’ve gotta look at changing that. So in saying that, if we have tradies right now, they’re feeling overwhelmed, and they’re just like, “I’ve had a gut full,” you know, you talk about pandemics, you talk about wars, you talk about fuel, mortgage, um, interest rates, like all this kind of stuff, they’ve just had an absolute gut full. What’s the first thing they should do, and how are they gonna fix it this week? Like, what’s one thing they should look at changing? 

Daimien
Yeah, I think first of all, if you’ve really had a gut full, okay, that, that… I get it, you know. And I remember too, I, I remember I’ve been there a few times in my business career, uh, where I’m like, “You know what? The next bad…” It… Actually, to be, to confess, I remember when COVID hit, like before COVID, I was like, “One more major challenge, I’m out. I’m selling up, I’m done.” The business was worth enough that I could retire for a few years and then come back at something later, you know? Mm. I remember I, um, I said, “Okay,” and then one of my, um, leaders said to me, “Daimien, you can’t do that.” I said, “What do you mean?” She said, “What are we all gonna do? Are you gonna make us all redundant right in the middle of COVID? Do you wanna do that? You’re not that sort of person. I know you.” And I was like, “Oh.” And I was like, “Can’t really quit, can I?” She says, “No, you can’t quit when the chips are down. You quit when you’re on top.”

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
You sell when you’re on top. You retire when you’re on top. When the chips are down, you got people relying on you. So first of all, you know, you go, okay. But the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over, right? Yes. And expect a different result. So if you’re struggling now, it’s because you’re not doing things right. It’s not your work ethic. It’s not how hard you’re working. It’s your technique, right? And you gotta go… The first thing I would do is I would go and get advice, okay? And I’ll– everyone I knew who was a successful businessperson around what you do, go and talk to that person. Go and have some lunch, and say, “Listen, these are the things that are frustrating me.” And you know what else recently? ChatGPT. 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
Talk to ChatGPT. Get on ChatGPT, tell it all about your business, and say, “These are the problems I’m facing. I need five mindset shifts five, um, things that I can do right now that are gonna improve the situation.” But I talk about the one question, right? So in the military, when they teach you this, you know, the one question thing, it’s a battlefield survival technique. So let’s say you, you know, you’re patrolling along in a war zone, and next thing you know, to your left, the trees erupt, and there’s a- an ambush, and there’s enemy are firing at you. So you hit the ground, and fortunately, they haven’t hit you, but you’re on the deck. Bullets are flying over the top of you. You’re caught in an ambush. What are you gonna do? So what you do is you ask yourself this question: “What is the one thing I can do right now that will most improve my situation?” You think about it, and in that situation, it might be, “Okay, crawl over there. There’s a little ditch over there. I’m gonna get into that– crawl to that ditch and get in it so they can’t hit me,” right? And then so you ask yourself, “What’s the one thing I can do right now?” Then you stop thinking, and you execute, right? And then when you’ve completed that task, you go, “Okay,” and then repeat the question. “Okay, now what’s the next thing I can do right now that’ll most improve my situation?” ‘Cause you can only do one thing at a time, and so the, “Okay, I’m in the ditch now. Okay, I’m gonna get all… I’m gonna throw some grenades back at them , and I might spray some machine gun fire at them or something just to get their heads down and sort of regain a bit of initiative.” And then I’ll execute that. Then I’ll get on the radio and call for help, let them know that I’m in a, stuck in an ambush, you know? Yeah. And then slowly but surely, you will dig your way out of that situation. What’s the one thing I can do right now? Stop thinking. Execute. Once it’s executed, think again. Ask yourself the question. Boom, boom, boom. And if you don’t know the answer to that question, that’s– go and get some help. Go and talk to people. Okay, what’s the one thing I’m gonna do right now? Go and see my old boss, who’s very successful in this game, take him to lunch, and say, “Mate, how did you do it? How do you handle this?” You know? So if you’re in a crisis right now, ask yourself one question. If you keep doing things the way you’re doing, you’re just gonna keep getting the same results, so you need to do things differently. You don’t need to work harder. You need to work smarter. There’s no problem that you’ve got right now that someone else hasn’t already had before you. 

Ange
I love how precise your advice is. It’s such sage advice. It’s about focus and literally doing one thing, but I love the fact that you hit the, “But now take action.” I think so many people hear too much, and they get so overwhelmed that therefore they don’t make any decisions, they procrastinate, and therefore they don’t make any progress, right? So your point is so spot on. Stay single-focused and actually take action. That is actually truthfully gonna show change. Love it. 

Daimien
100%. 

Andy
Absolutely love it, mate. Mate, we also play a little bit of a game with our guests, which we’re gonna start right now. We’re gonna ask you three rapid-fire questions, right? You’ve got about 10 or 20 seconds to answer each one of them. Are you ready? 

Daimien
Go. 

Ange
All right. First one. What’s one decision you made in business that changed everything?

Daimien
Uh, go big. 

Andy
Go big. 

Daimien
To quote 50 Cent, “Get rich or die trying.” You, you won’t achieve what you want small. 

Andy
Love it. Love it. Agree. What’s one small thing that makes a big difference in your day-to-day? 

Daimien
The quest, what’s the best use of my time question. 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
Every day, I, I … “What’s the best use of my time? What’s the best use of my time?” You know? And then that, the answer that you give to that question will, will mature as you get more experience. In the early stages, it’s to do the task that pays you the most money and delegate everything else, right? Whatever your highest paying task is, try and do that as much as possible. Outsource everything else. Outsource your housekeeping, outsource your lawn mowing. You know, outsource the business admin to a Filipino VA. Delegate that stuff. What’s the best use of my time? Everyone gets 168 hours. I’ve got 168 hours a week. You’ve got 168 hours a week. Everyone listening to this podcast, you’ve got 168 hours a week. Why am I? Where am I at? Right? When I’ve got over, you know, I think 137 headcount at the moment across five different businesses when I started in the spare room of my house. It was just me. What, what have I done with my time better? And, and forget me, what has Elon Musk done with his time better? Yeah, yeah. So, you know, like, so I’m nothing compared to that bloke. And, um, and that, that question is so powerful. Yeah, sorry, long answer to short question.

Andy
No, no.

Ange
I love that. You’ve only got one life, so have a crack. That’s what I hear. 

Daimien
Absolutely. 

Ange
Yeah. You know? Final question, what’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?

Daimien
Ooh, best piece of advice I’ve ever received. If someone else has done it, you can do it, too. 

Andy
Yeah. Absolutely.

Daimien
If someone else has done it. I- if you’re ever doubting yourself, just remind yourself someone half as smart as you and half as industrious as you has done it, and, and they just knew. They just found out how, and then they took action. And you can do that, too. I think there’s never been a time where the answers to questions are more readily available to everybody. Yes. It’s literally in, in your hand, that phone you’re holding right now. 

Andy
Yeah. 

Daimien
Right? That phone has the answers to every problem that you’ve, you face, particularly with, with AI, but also, you know, there’s people out, there’s experts in everything, creating content, writing blogs, writing articles, doing podcasts. It’s never been easier to find the answers to your problems. So just if someone else has done it, you can do it too. 

Andy
Yeah, absolute legend, mate. I loved all of those. Thank you for playing along. And listen, mate, I just wanna say a huge thanks for joining us here on The Tradie Show. It’s been a real treat. We love you, our Lifestyle Tradie members love you, and I know now our Lifestyle Tradie community and, and The Tradie Show podcast loves you as well, buddy.

Daimien
Thank you very much. 

Ange
So good to have you here with us. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. So amazing. Always appreciate what you share and the time that you give up to actually spend with our members and The Tradie Show. So thanks again. So good. 

Andy
And we’ll catch you soon, mate. 

Daimien
Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Andy
All right, there it is, the brutal truth about leadership. And look, this is one of those episodes where it’s easy to listen, nod along, and then go straight back into the same habits tomorrow. 

Ange
But if something in this episode hit you, if you found yourself thinking, “Hmm, yeah, that’s probably me,” then don’t just ignore it because the reality is your business will only grow to the level of your leadership, not your tools, not your team, not your marketing, you.

Andy
So the question is, what are you gonna do about it? Now, if you’re sitting there thinking, “I know I need to step up, but I don’t know exactly how,” that’s exactly what we do here at Lifestyle Tradie. We’re all about helping you build a business that actually works for your life, not one that burns you out. So if you’re ready to take this seriously, head over to our website, lifestyletradie.com.au, and book a game plan call with me. Let’s chat one-on-one about your business. 

Ange
I’m sure you have a list of things you learnt from this episode. Don’t get overwhelmed. Just go implement one of the things this week and start leading your business the way it actually needs to be.

Andy
Okay, that’s it for today. We’ll catch you in the next one. 

Ange
See you then. 

Andy
Subscribe to The Tradie Show, wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Rate and write us a review, or for more information about Lifestyle Tradie, head to lifestyletradie.com.au.