How to put profit first in your trade business — Guest starring Mike Michalowicz, author of best-selling ‘Profit First’

Mike
Yeah. Thank you for asking. Unfortunately, it was a result of my own financial woes and misunderstandings. I’ll give you a quick backstory. I, right out of university, built some businesses and was successful building and selling them. I thought I knew everything, but honestly those businesses, while they were making money, I was never taking money or growing and it caught the eye of an investor while my third business, I said, well, I’m just gonna grow bigger and faster and, uh, I grew. But it didn’t appeal to any investors. And then it started to collapse because I didn’t know how to earn profits. I didn’t know how to retain cash. I burnt through everything. At the end of this third business, I lost everything I had. I actually lost my house. I lost my possessions. Cars. The one thing I didn’t lose was my family and, and that’s honestly miraculous. What it did though is trigger me to reinvestigate. What I didn’t know about entrepreneurship and I didn’t know a lot. One of the essential things I didn’t know was how profitability actually works, and so I looked at this foundational formula. That’s a globally used formula, and what we’re told is our sales minus, or expenses, you know, our turnover or revenue, whatever used for that definition, but sales minus expenses equals profit. The problem with this is while it’s a logical formula, it’s not behaviorally accurate. When something comes last, it’s insignificant. Angela, you never say, you know, I love my family so much, that’s why I put them last. Or Andy, you know, exercise is important, my health is important, and that’s why I decided to put it last. Like we would never say that. But when we say profit comes last, and it’s even in our terms, we call it the bottom line or the year end, all these things means it comes last and in our behavior it becomes the Manana syndrome. We wait till the end of the year and oh, no profit this year, maybe next year. What I did was I flipped the formula. Sales minus profit equals expenses. And as a result, unfortunately prior to flipping the formula, 83% of small businesses globally, this is in Australia, this in the US, it’s a global phenomena. 83% of businesses are surviving check by check in a constant panic and stress to make money to take something. And ever since we flipped the formula, I, I’m very proud to say as of today as we’re recording this, we’ve over 500,000 businesses have implemented Profit First and now are permanently profitable. And now we’re at the point where we have thousands a week implementing the system. 

Andy
Yeah, it’s amazing and, and the thing that I constantly see as well, mate, some people will say to me, I have made profit and it’s a small amount of profit, but they haven’t paid themselves a wage. So when you work it out, they’re worse off than their staff that are actually working for them. Yeah. So in your opinion, why do so many businesses fail to put that profit really first and to make sure that they’re rewarding themselves first? For all the hard work they’re doing. They put everyone else in front.

Mike
I know it’s a shame because we think that’s what we should do. We think that’s how you grow a business. There’s even terms like it takes money to make money, plow your money back into your business, reinvest in yourself. And I wanna tell you, all those things are nonsense. It doesn’t take money to make money. It takes innovation to make money. It doesn’t take pouring more money into your business. It takes making smart decisions, prudent financial decisions, and it doesn’t take compromising ourselves. Self-sacrifice is only sustainable for a certain period of time before you want to give up  and you’re destroying the entire business then. So what we have to do as business owners is pay ourselves a reasonable salary and, and here’s a way to do it. If you had to hire someone to replace you and all the things you do to do the exact work you do in your business today, what would you pay them? And I suspect it’s a substantial amount of money cuz you likely are probably the best employee your business has. So that substantial amount of money you’d pay for the best employee, well you already have them. It’s you. We need to pay you. That, that is recognition of the fact that you are what’s called an owner operator. You own the business, but you also operate the business. Therefore, you need to be paid a salary. Profit is above and beyond that. I call this being a shareholder of a business. So I, my, my businesses here, I own them and I also work in them. I get paid a salary for my work in the business. But I also get a quarterly profit distribution. In recognition of the work I’ve done to start this business, I’ve taken a risk. A business could go up or could go down. It’s like if you’re in public stock, the value goes up, you ride that up and you, you get more cash as a result. If it goes down, take that risk. Well, as a small business owner, we’re doing the exact same thing. We are fueling the economy. We are providing jobs if you hire people, and therefore that risk needs to be rewarded. So profit and owner’s compensation are two separate considerations. We deserve an appropriate owner’s compensation. That’s what we live our lifestyle off of. And then profit is a thank you that you get every quarter, every 90 days for taking on that extraordinary risk of starting a business. And that’s the bonus money. Do what you want with that, but make sure it’s a reward to you for taking that risk. 

Andy
Yeah, when I started my business back in, uh, 1999, mate, um, uh, Dr. Drip plumbing business. So I obviously wish I’d known you then, but the thing was, uh, for me, you know, I was a great tradie. I was great with my hands and I got out there and I worked hard and I was good at communication and, and we brought money in and I could bring sales in and we grew the business quite, you know, quite fast. And from the outside everyone was thinking it was incredible. But the thing was, I measured success by how many trucks I had and how many staff I had. Now we were making profit and I was paying myself a wage, but I went down this model of thinking I was bigger and better and my ego got in the way and I just didn’t follow the profit first principle. 

Ange
So you wouldn’t have known, we didn’t know about them. 

Andy
I didn’t know them. So I’d like, um, our listeners to listen to. So what is the profit first principle? 

Mike
Yeah, it’s the realization that it is more important that we focus on the health of the business as opposed to the size of the business. So that trap you fell into. I started my first business in 96. Same thing. I thought bigger was better. And the conversation, by the way, with other entrepreneurs was always, how big is your business? How many employees do you have? How many trucks do you have? It was this game of size. But what matters is not how much we make, it’s how much we take, what we take home. So the new question is, how healthy is your business? And the formula supports that. We already touched on it to address this. Every time revenue comes into your business sales, take a predetermined percentage of that money that’s profit first. Hide that money away from your business. Now your business will tell you what’s truly available to operate. If I wanna have a 20% profit in my business, every deposit, 20% will come out. That’s my profit. It’s already accounted for. It’s a cash based profit, meaning it’s actual money hidden away at a bank account. Then I know I have that remaining 80% to operate my business, that’s the profit first principle. Take the profit you desire first and then your business will tell you what’s available to operate the business.

Ange
I find it really difficult that as a business owner, you look at a P&L like your profit and loss at, you know, we should be looking at all the time, but most tradies will look at it only at the end of the year. But even a profit and loss actually teaches you that profit comes last cuz it sits at the bottom of your P&L, right?

Mike
Oh, it drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. 

Ange
I, to be honest, I don’t even know how you would switch that up so that you could see it a different way. But I’m really interested to know how that kind of plays on your mind. Do you think there’s actually a link between profit and psychology? 

Mike
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, we already touched on it. When something comes last, it is defined as insignificant. So if something, you know that client, that you call last, at the end of the day is the client you like least. It’s an avoidance technique. , you know, the things that are last are insignificant. The person, that’s the last person I’m gonna call, that’s someone you don’t like.  We’re told profit comes last. So what we do in execution again is we take our profit first. It is a behavioral system and we need to intercept our paths, our behavior. You indicate something that’s very interesting. Very few people look at their P&L. If we do, it’s at the end of the year to the chagrin of our accountant saying, sorry, no profit this year. But what almost all of us do, I’ve visited so many countries now, I’ve spoken with so many entrepreneurs. This is a common phenomena. Almost all of us log into our bank accounts and see how much money we have, and for many of us do it weekly, daily. Some of us included hourly. How we are doing it now . And we make this, we make decisions what’s there, on what’s there? So here’s the technique. When we do this profit for a system, it must be set up at the bank because that’s where we’re going. It’s called a behavioral intercept. Where we go is where we set this up because it’s very hard to change behavior. Start reading those P&Ls regularly tied into all those crazy metrics, but it’s very easy to channel behavior. And I’ll give you a quick example. I wanted to start exercising regularly in my whole life. I said I should do it seven or maybe eight years ago now. I made the transition. I don’t miss a workout five days a week, including this morning. I’m working out, and I did it through a behavioral intercept. What I did is I observed my pattern, uh, of not working out. I’d wake up in the morning, go to the bathroom, grab a cup of coffee, start scrolling through the news, thinking about, oh, I gotta work out today. Well, I noticed that the pattern was wake up, go to the bathroom. I put my gym shoes on top of the toilet seat in my bathroom. So now when my natural pattern is to wake up, go to the bathroom, the only way I can use the toilet is by grabbing my gym shoes. That starts the momentum. I put ’em on my feet. I go to the gym. In our business, our natural first step is to go to that bank account. That’s why we need to set accounts there with different intended uses, including profit. So when money arrives, we carve it up, and now we know the money’s intended use before we spend it.

Andy
Yeah. That’s amazing mate. I love that concept. You know, before you get outta bed or before you get bed at night, you put your shoes on the toilet seat to make sure. I wonder if, um, there’s a lot of wives out there that go, that’s a good idea with Martin. 

Mike
My wife’s shoes. I Don’t think it’s a good idea. 

Andy
Mate, I find it really interesting that trade business owners and contractors often don’t consider themselves to be entrepreneurs. And there’s a story I just wanna quickly mention. It was around 20 years ago, and I was standing in the pub at Narrabeen Sands Hotel, where we live, in the northern beaches in Sydney. And I had four mates standing around me and one of my mates who is quite entrepreneurial, he stood there. He was a plumber by trade and so was I. And there was a bricklayer and an electrician. And I introduced him to the group when one of the bricklayers said to him, so what do you do? And he turned to him and he said, I’m an entrepreneur. And it was just such a telling moment for me. The bricklayer almost spit beer in his face with laughter. An entrepreneur, who is this bloke? Is he cheating? You know? And it was such a defining moment, and I think most trade business owners now, if you’re a trade business owner, you are an entrepreneur. And I think the tide is changing from 20 years ago. But what’s your experience with that and how to change people’s mindsets to realize they are entrepreneurial?

Mike
Yeah, and I would suspect that entrepreneurs are self-defined, we fast forward today. That he’s had extraordinary success, perhaps even more than the people that define their title as the trait on McLay or, or, uh, Sparky. Now, here’s the thing. Humans, all humans comply with our identity for ourselves. And the big component of identity is the labels we use. So if I say I suck at math, I will prove myself right by not practicing math, by not doing math and, and say, see. I told you, if I say I am a bricklayer, I will be very good at bricklaying. But it also means I don’t see myself as owning a business. I work in the business. So we have to realize that using labels is mission critical, but we also have to realize, sometimes we won’t believe ourselves If, if you, for your life has been saying, I’m a sparky, and then today you say, now I’m an entrepreneur, you’re gonna say, nah, that’s bullshit. I’m really sparky. So here’s the technique. Use it as a comma, and I’m proving it to the world. Once you use your new title, I would say, I’m an entrepreneur and I’m proving to the world that way when someone spits some beer out in my face, , he’s a, that guy’s another person I need to prove it to. We have to give ourselves that flexibility and too often I hear people saying, today, put the flag in the sand and starting today, you’re an entrepreneur or a shareholder of a business or a board of directors leader, but all those terms are not believable to ourselves. So to convince yourself, again, to simply say, and I’m proving it to the world, and that gives yourself the permission to start using that title, but also afford yourself the time to truly believe it. One thing is never go back to the old titles because we’ll comply with that. Go with your title. You are an entrepreneur and you are proving it to the world. And one day soon you’ll convince yourself, your business will be grateful for it. 

Ange
I would definitely say here for trade business owners here in Australia, they’re really judgemental though. So when they ask, what do you do? What do you do? And when someone replies back, I’m only a tradie for someone to actually respond with, I’m an entrepreneur straightaway, they’re like, oh, you’re just such a dickhead.

Mike
No. Yeah, I get, listen, I get it. I get it, but what’s more important, being judged by a few people or achieving your goals. And what we can do is we can play it off and say, listen, I’m an entrepreneur and I know I sound like the biggest dickhead on the planet for saying this, but I run a tradie practice. I wanna serve more people by hiring more tradies. That’s what I wanna do. That’s why I’m an entrepreneur. And call me a dickhead. I’m gonna serve our world by hiring more people. You see self-talk, self-talk, yes. Self talk. And the number one job that we have is to provide jobs. And, and this is kind of the way I shame people into this. Huh? People say, yeah, but I’m just a tradie. That’s all I do. I say, well what’s your vision? Well, I want to grow a business. Well, the number one responsibility that we have to grow a business is to hire people. If we continue to do the work, we’re avoiding the ability to hire people cuz we’re stealing the work. Our job is to stop doing the work and start providing the work for people who are seeking it. That’s our job and that’s actually what sparks the economy. So we have to do it. 

Andy
Yeah. Yeah. And a hundred percent, mate. I think that the real big thing is, you know, a lot of people, I’ll go up to a business owner now that has five trucks on the road, and I say, and just say, I didn’t know him. I’d say, what? What do you do? And he’d say, I’m a plumber. But he’s not, he’s a business owner. Right. And what I’m finding, you know, you’re getting the younger crew coming through at the moment and you know, they’ve got the ego, they’ve got the confidence, they believe in themselves. They don’t know business, and they struggle with being the business owner, but they’ve got the energy and they believe in themself and they drive. And that’s like what I did with Dr. Drip. I just grew the business in Fa Sydney back then to have, um, 17 guys and the way I grew at such a fast rate, was actually no mean feat, you know? And for me, it was always bigger and better. We had the flashiest trucks, we had the best equipment. All the money went back into the business and I grew the business. We had the warehouse on the freeway with a big banner that said Dr. Drip and the guys even walked around with this spunk, an ego about them, because we work for Dr. Drip, and I see it a lot, but I just. Touch on again, because I’m a real believer and you know, a lot of people we work with have got 30 and 50 and over 50 staff, but I’m still a believer that bigger is not better. You’ve gotta get the model and the structure of your business right at the beginning. But I just wanna talk to you a little bit about bigger is not better. You touched on it earlier, but I’d love to hear more. 

Mike
Yeah. So I’m gonna pound home this team. It is how much we take, not how much the business makes, yet there’s so much promotion around the size of the business. If you look at any business rags, any magazines, you’ll see the successful person up front and it’s always based upon size. Here in the States we have a competition called the Inc. 5,000. The most successful businesses and Sinfully are based upon their revenue growth, not how healthy these businesses are. You fast forward five or 10 years after they win these awards for their growth. And lives, businesses are out of business. I think that’s the ultimate sin, and I think what we somebody have to do is start changing a conversation the next time. One time someone said, Hey, how big is your business? Say, you know, let’s talk about how healthy our business is. You’ll see now you’ll be the one spitting beer in their face because they’ll like, what? No one talks like that. I personally am far more impressed by a business with three or four tradies, and the owner of the business is living a life of luxury hundred percent. That wows me as opposed to the person that has 50 tradies and, uh, they’re desperately trying to figure out how to pay payroll. That doesn’t impress me at all. So we have to change that conversation tonight. How big is it? But how healthy is it? Have your pride associated with healthy and your business will be served. 

Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent mate. Totally agree. And I know you’ve been around the, the business industry, not just with tradies and contractors, but all business owners, you know, what’s one of the things that you see, and you know, if you had those powers, I know you’ve got a lot of powers, mate, but you could click your fingers and you’d love to be able to change in all businesses. What’s one of those things that you’d really wanna be able to click your fingers and fix for everyone in the world. 

Mike
Yeah, so it would be to, uh, focus on the few meanings so many businesses believe that their way to healthy growth is by expanding their service offering, doing more things for a more variety of people. But the reality is the more narrow our offering is for a smaller community is a more specific community, the more successful we are tenfold. My example is a brain surgeon versus a general practitioner. If you go to your general practitioner, your, your general doctor, chances are they are within an immediate radius of you. They’re a convenient purchase. So they get a lot of people, but they only get people that are close by. I I If your doctor said, Hey, I’m moving to the States, uh, I’d love for you to still visit me out there. Are you kidding me? That 20 hour flight? No. But compare that to a brain surgeon. Say, say you have an ailment that only this brain surgeon can serve, and they’re located here in the States. Oh yeah, I’ll hop on the next flight. Well, they said, you know, it’s gonna cost you 500,000 or a million dollars for the service. He was laughing at a general practitioner. But when it comes to the brain surgeon, they’re saving your life. It’s worth it because the brain surgeon has done this process repeatedly, hundreds of thousands of times. So a successful outcome is almost guaranteed. Where the general practitioner has never done it before, and we would never trust one that says, oh, I’ve never done brain surgery, but would you be willing to be my first patient? No . And that’s what’s happening. If you are broadening your services and trying to service everyone, you are giving them the first exposure. You’re doing something for the first time with them, and that’s actually pretty risky. But when you become very elite at a capability, the people that see your service as life saving for their business or for their homes or for whatever will seek you out. The specialist always dictates more. The only way to get there is to do a narrow set of things for a narrow community, but be the world’s best at it.

Andy
A hundred percent mate, and I just wanna touch on that as well and, and Ange talks a little bit probably about nicheing and you know, that’s what you’re talking about really is, is about nicheing and how to do that and finding that small area. Like what I notice and Ange and I both notice is there’s a lot of tradies and contractors that go well outside of their circle, you know, they want to get a lot of work and they grow too fast. So for us in Sydney, 

Ange
And they’re opportunists. 

Andy
That’s right. You know, us as and for us in Sydney, you’ve sort of got your north side, your south side, and your west side. Okay. And, some people will travel all over that area. But sometimes with traffic, and I know depending on where you are in America, you guys have some pretty bad traffic as well. But it could take us, which is normally a half an hour or 45 minute trip, it could take us two hours at the wrong time during the day and you’re losing a lot of your money and profitability because you’ve just stretched yourself too thin. 

Ange
I totally agree. I think a lot of that issue with regards to trade business owners and, and look at all small business owners, like I said, is that they are opportunists. It’s a reason why they got in business in the first place. It’s a reason why they’ve probably done really well, but we see it a lot with some of the guys that we work with, with some of our members. Even though we work with startup guys, our niche is really people who’ve been in business for, you know, five, 10 years already and have a really solid business, but they’ve really been turning the wheels. And they do start working with us and they’re just so excited to grow and we are like, hang on a minute. You just need to slow down. There is so much money on the table right now inside your own business, and we just need to strip it apart first. Yes, you can find so much money inside their business. It’s mad.

Mike
Oh, there, there’s so much money inside their business. . You know, it’s funny, the last time I was in Sydney, by the way, just a little side note here, uh, I was taking a quick tour and I asked the taxi driver to take me to the east side. He said, do you wanna go to the ocean? I had no idea. I had no idea. So, um, yeah, I, I see this too, is that we focus on growth without giving health to our business. Yes, there was a study around people that were weightlifters, and I was talking to a coach of these athletes that are looking to get bigger and stronger, and what they found is the most important thing the weightlifters often need is rest and recovery. And that’s the one thing they’re not willing to do because they’re afraid of losing their strength. If I don’t work out every day, I’m not gonna get stronger is the belief, but the reality is muscle needs rest. In our business, if you constantly grow, you’re not giving your business the quote unquote muscle rest and recovery to strengthen. Now you’re starting to build a house of cards that will come crumbling down. 

Andy
A hundred percent. And I think it’s all about getting that business model right. Isn’t it? Right, isn’t it? And um, I get a lot of businesses to come to us and they’re like, we need more work. We need it now. And they’re willing to spend big dollars on Google AdWords and SEO and they throw money out that they don’t even know if it’s gonna actually work. And they’re scared of it. And I look at their business that they’ve got at the moment and everything they need is there for 30% growth. Just if they structured the business the right way. And most people just don’t see it. And you know, I don’t know what it is. And I know it’s the same all around the world, but sometimes we all think we know better. And the trade business owner, and no doubt the contractor, I just, it gobsmack me now why people with good businesses, they don’t come to other people and like us and actually get help because, You know, for not a lot of money, they can change their lives forever, but their ego sort of stands in the way of being told what to do. How have you handled that over the years? 

Mike
Yeah. Bias is the demise of so many businesses, and when I say bias, our own internal bias and ego associated with the business we know best. It’s the outsider who does not have an emotional attachment to the business, therefore is much more  subjective, someone that can really, or objective, I should say, can much more analyze what’s going on in the business. So I invite people to do that. And, and there’s actually two ways, uh, a couple ways to do this. I liken this to working out. Some people, you know, read an exercise regimen and say, I’m gonna start doing this on my own. But the failure rate is very high. Often it’s around the new year where people make this new commitment  to start exercising, and then within a month or so they fall off. But the next level up is by having a partner. So one good strategy is who else is doing this? Surround yourself with people that are looking to improve their business and make it healthier and work with them. Kinda like working out with a partner at the gym. Of course, the benefit here is if, if it’s raining one day and you don’t want to go, your partner may say, let’s get outta bed and go, I’ll see you at the gym. But sometimes collusion kicks in and this is where you’re like, oh, your partner says it’s raining. I don’t want to go. And they’re like, I don’t wanna go either. I did wanna have donuts, , you wanna go have donuts? You’re like, yeah, let’s have donuts. Collusion is extremely dangerous. Cause now you start a downward spiral. The best way to get extraordinary, uh, fitness is by using a trainer. Now, a trainer is a paid individual who works with countless other folks and has a masterful set of skills they can deliver to you. Make sure you don’t get injured. They’ll make sure you’re doing the right exercises. They’ll monitor your momentum, and they’re the ultimate accountability partner. You’re paying them. So when it’s raining out, they’re sitting at the gym waiting for you, saying Get your butt over here. So that’s the analogy I use. If you wanna get the best workouts, inevitably a trainer’s the best resource. 

Ange
And the consistency of doing exactly that. I can’t, I can’t agree with you more. Yeah. To have someone you can rely on that knows exactly what they’re doing and then just do it. Yeah. You know, over, over and over and over again.

Andy
And it’s interesting too, some business owners just truly believe their own bullshit.

Ange
I agree. 

Andy
And you’ve gotta call ’em on that. And that’s what trainers do. 

Mike
Yeah. Hey, listen, I’m one of them. I believe my own bullshit , and that’s why, and that’s why I have a trainer. Yeah, I have multiple actual consultants that come in with me and say, Mike, you’re being a dickhead. You’re an idiot. . This is what you need to fix. And it so it’s, listen, it’s hard to face that, but I am so grateful for that critical feedback. As opposed to just following my own path to destruction. 

Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent mate. A hundred percent. Listen, we’ve talked a lot about a lot of the great things, but I just wanna get that one piece of advice for trade business owners and let’s hope everyone listening to this podcast today in Australia, in America, they’re gonna at least call themselves business owners. Yes. Um, and hopefully they start leaning in towards entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, , um, into the entrepreneur space and realize that’s what we are. What’s the one bit of advice you’d love to give to them now? 

Mike
I would love for every single person to know that your clients want you to be wildly profitable. Now, here’s the thing, they will never use those words. You’ll never have a client say, Hey, could you double the rates on me? Could you rip me off just a little bit? I’d like that. They’ll never say that, but what they will say is, when you’re serving me, when your employees are coming here, I want their undivided attention. I want your full focus. I want to be your most important customer and get the best of you. The only way to do that is if you’re not worrying about money. If you’re worrying about money, you’re worrying about making that next sale. You can’t focus on your existing client. You need to get a new one desperately. So you’re not there, not fully. So if you’re profitable, you can give ’em focus. Your clients will say they want the best of you. The only way to do that is by being profitable, and that’s why they want you to be profitable. You have a responsibility to take money. 

Andy
Mate. That is so true. And I think the big thing is it’s not about being the best tradie or contractor out there with your hands because they’re not always the ones that know, that make the money. It’s about being the best business owner and offering the best customer service. And we constantly talk about this. They’re, you know, people will go, but I can’t afford this. And how are those guys doing this? And that’s because they’ve set their business up to make profit and to make some serious profit, to offer amazing customer service. Now our business is running at like 77% repeat business at the moment. And we would be classified, I’d say around the 75% point in regards to expenses. We’re not by any means the most expensive, but we’re by no means are we a Billy Bum crack down here on the bottom and, and, uh, . And I think the thing is the service we offer, they get the same service every single time, and that’s what makes us successful and that’s what makes our members successful as well. 

Ange
I think a lot of tradies get it wrong, right? They get the little things, the customer service part, the bit that’s really important to your niche. Like if you understood your avatar, your target audience really, really well, if you knew what was important to them, it’s really easy to deliver. And right now. 

Mike
That’s right. 

Ange
Now customers have huge expectations on, US Internet. You know, they expect you to communicate straight away and what they actually want from you is actually not that difficult. I want you to show up on time. I want you to be clean and tidy cuz I respect my house. I want you to respect my home. It’s just such little things that if they consistently kept up with that, they would make such a huge difference inside their business.

Mike
Yeah. Small differences can have a big impact. For sure. 

Andy
Yeah. Mike, it’s been absolutely brilliant catching up with the day. We’ve caught up with you quite a few times in the past. Um, we love you mate, and you’re so knowledgeable and, uh, uh, we just really thank you for being with us today. But as one of our guests, we play a little game of rapid response questions, if that’s okay. We’re gonna throw some questions out short, fast, and, uh, we’d love you to answer them, but you’ve only got under 30 seconds to answer them. Do you think you can do it mate? 

Mike
If Billy Bum Crack can do it, I can do it . So I’m ready. 

Andy
Billy , we might have to get Billy Bum crack on one of these podcasts and see how he runs his business these days. Okay, so let’s get started. What’s the biggest mistake you’ve personally made in business? 

Mike
Thinking that I was the most important person for my business. Ultimately, I may have had the vision, but it is the collective input of my team. There is no me, it’s, it’s us.

Andy
A hundred percent, mate. You know, you, you’ve gotta have a team around you to get that growth, don’t you? 

Mike
Yeah. 

Andy
So what do you wish you’d known sooner when you first started your business at the beginning, what do you think? Oh my God. If only I’d known this from day one. 

Mike
Failure is often a lesson in how not to do things where I thought failure was something I had to push through harder. Sometimes in some cases it’s something to navigate around and not repeat. 

Andy
Buddy. It’s so true. And let’s face it, we’ve all made so many mistakes and some have cost me a bucket load of money as well, but we’ve always bounced back and we’ve been better for it. So we’ve got the last question here, mate. So what is the best thing about being an entrepreneur? 

Mike
Oh, freedom. Yeah. I mean the true definition of entrepreneurship in my experience is freedom, financial freedom, personal freedom to do what you want, when you want. It’s earned though. You don’t start that way. And that’s the thing I wish I knew, I thought the day I became an entrepreneur, I had freedom. No, no. I became an entrepreneur. I had to earn freedom. Now I have it. And it is amazing. 

Ange
That’s such an awesome response. I think, uh, in having this conversation specifically about profit first. Having control and freedom with regards to your business is absolutely paramount for all of us, but so is money. I know that every single one of the listeners today will be so chuffed to actually hear and understand now the importance of profit first. And that being said, for those of you who have not read Mike’s book, I totally urge you to go get your hands on a copy and actually read it to cover, to cover and actually put it into practice cuz this thing is a game changer. I honestly wish we’d known about this the day that we started our own business, and I definitely encourage every trade business and in fact every business to be doing. It’s the reason why we got into business. Make money, make profit. Really important. 

Andy
Also, guys, I’d love everyone to check out our show notes for Mike’s profit diagram and an overview story of his methodology. Mike, I can’t wait to see you again. It’s so great to catch up with this time. Just wanna say, uh, a real big thanks. I know our listeners, everyone loves you over here in Australia. We really appreciate it. Spending this time with us. It’s just so great to listen to your time and time again, and every time you speak, it just makes so much sense and it’s anyone that listens and listens to your stories around it and how you talk about the issues and how to fix them are just absolutely blown away. And for you, our Tradie listeners, I can’t wait to share with you. Our next episode, we’ll be interviewing the marketing guru, Tim Reid. For his marketing must do’s. You’re gonna absolutely love this. He’s a superstar. I can’t wait for you to listen to the next episode. 

Mike
I appreciate both of you. Thank you so much for having me.

Ange
Thanks so much, Mike. Chat to you again soon.

Andy
Catch you soon, mate. It’s soon.