The unconscious mannerisms that get us unstuck as partners in life & trade business

Dr. Louise
Great.

Ange
Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you became known for your body language and vocal intelligence expertise?

Dr. Louise
Yes. Well, you know, a lot of people out there like me have a diverse background. And my background has two critical parts to it. One is I’ve studied business and leadership communication, and that is my master’s, my PhD degree. And also I have been singing Opera for a decade.

Ange
Wow.

Dr. Louise
And I was in Europe for 10 years and eventually had a soloist contract at the Vienna State Opera. I wasn’t doing the lead roles, but I was doing the small roles, the fill-in roles, the cover roles, that sort of thing and mixing with the rich and famous in what was the top opera house in the world. And that very much colors what I do. And so as my PhD, I studied in particular leadership communication from the perspective of what we do with our vocal tone and our body language.

Ange
Can you explain a little bit more about what exactly vocal intelligence means?

Dr. Louise
Yeah. Well, vocal intelligence is a term that I made up. What it says is it’s the intelligence that we bring to our body that gives us our vocal tone and voice is inextricably linked with our body shape. People often think that voice is just our throat, and it’s not because voice is just air, and air is managed by the shape and power of the body. So how we shape that body is critical. Whether our head’s off our neck and we get a funny sound like this, or , whether we, uh, you know, we do all the things that we do with our voice is all caused by our body shape for voice is influenced by body, and body is often influenced by the mind. So vocal intelligence is that mind, body, voice connection. They’re all interlinked.

 Andy
Wow. I wonder sometimes I’ve known for a very AKA Andy, you know. So for our listeners, could you explain some of the everyday scenarios where trade business owners and contractors can apply body language and or vocal intelligence to influence or get an outcome or a situation?

Dr. Louise
Yes, everything we do in life, yes, every moment, but in particular difficult situations. Because what happens in difficult situations is that there are ways of dealing with it, processes that we structure that we need to follow through to hit psychological markers. And then the non-verbals, i e, the body and the voice that go with that. So for instance, if you want to be liked by somebody, Then, uh, your vocal marker might be to have a lot of air in the voice, to have a lot of escaping air. People feel that that’s warmth and caring, and empathy, but actually it’s just letting a whole lot of air escape from the voice. So if I were to say to somebody, right, okay. Yeah. Now I’m listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got you, got you, got you. That’s not as, they won’t translate that as caring and listening as they do if you went right. Right. Wow. Yes. Wow. Got that. So using your airflow in your voice, escaping air, has a massive impact on how much people think you care, which is particularly useful in difficult situations.

Ange
I connect this so much with trade business owners specifically about the fact that often our first point of contact is over the phone.

Dr. Louise
Yes.

Ange
And we tell this story with tradies that they’ve really gotta be conscious about how they answer the phone and they, they think it’s really not that important, but, We tell this story like, so when the phone rings, say you’ve been in business for 10 years, the phone rings and where are you? You’re either under a sink or upper ladder or whatever, and you hear that phone ring. You’ve spent a fortune on marketing to make the phone ring, but you answer the phone and you go, oh god, in your head. And so straight away it comes out in your voice. Hi. They don’t talk about their business name and then the customers straight away. Here’s what they’re saying, and we tell tradies, they can hear in your voice that you aren’t listening when you have called them specifically to ask an issue. And what you are saying is such gold that they really need to be conscious about how they project their voice, help use their tone and to actually sound like they’re interested. Yeah. Your example just then is exactly the way tradies talk. .

Dr. Louise
You know, I have to own up to the fact that I actually had a connection with the building industry for 20 years, so I know it. And my yes. Ex-husband, um, would say to me, yeah, that he couldn’t believe it because, you know, we’d be having an argument and I’d be saying, everybody must die in the whole household. And the phone would ring and I’d turn around and go, hello, this is Louise. And then, and he’d go, you are crazy. How do you do that? But it’s a skill that we need. You need to change your voice exactly that. Yes. You’re up the ladder and, oh no, this doesn’t work. Suddenly the phone rings. Hi, welcome to Trade. You know like a hundred percent. You need to change that voice. You do. You have to do it. And I must say that psychologically people need three things on the phone. It’s been researched. They need your name. Yes, they do. They need your company. Yes, they do. And they need a greeting. So it might be, you know, hi tradies or us. This is Louise. Hi. That’s the greeting trade. Are there any of us? That’s the company. It’s a company. I just made it up. This is Louise. And then say your name and have your name as the last thing, Louise. Full stop. Yeah. If you say Louise speaking, people don’t remember your name, but if you use it as the last thing they do.

 Andy
Yeah, absolutely gold. And there’s no doubt everyone listening today, you’re like, oh my God, that’s me and definitely I . You know when you got kids around your legs and you’re trying to get them to do something and the phones ringing and you’re juggling five things at once and you, you’re really cranky. You just can’t have that come through the phone. Your customers just don’t want that, do they? So,

Dr. Louise
True story. I was in a, I was uh, out this morning and I went for coffee and I walked into a cafe and there were a lot of cafes in the shopping area. I didn’t know. Yeah. And I walked into one and the lady said, excuse me, can you move to the side, please? Excuse me. One of the staff was coming. And I just went, clearly I’m too much trouble and I walked out and went next door.

 Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, exactly. And I think a lot of people don’t realize that that first interaction on the phone is a real turning point. Make or break. And if you can get them right, then that’s the cornerstone to getting a sale later. It all starts at the beginning and there are steps along the way.

Ange
That’s right. We talk about the flow of a job and after they’ve actually had a conversation over the phone, they’re really only trying to get them. One thing, which is allow them to come on site. Yep. But it’s interesting that you comment that there’s a real connection about how you hold yourself, your body language, and not just your vocals. Because yet again, someone else shows up at that front door, different tradesmen, for instance, to the person that answered the phone. And I as a customer, literally judge you the moment I look at you and if you are holding yourself in a bad way, or, you know, you look bad, or you, you speak to me with a tone of voice that I don’t like, un unfortunately, have made a judgment call about you. Mm. Literally within a couple seconds.

Dr. Louise
Four, four seconds for a first impression, and, uh, uh, you know, I had a colleague who used to do training on clothes, and she used to walk on stage looking dreadful with a coat and a hat and all looking raffle and then would throw that coat and hat off and say, look at me. I look completely different . And I’m going, oh, please God, tell me you don’t do that. I mean, first of all, it’s a really stupid thing to do, but second of all, your first impression has destroyed the whole act. Yes. It doesn’t work. And it, you know, the statistic I learned was it costs six times more to get a client back than it does to keep them in the first place.

 Andy
A hundred percent. You know, people are ringing up for help because they need your opinion. And if you’ve got a bit of brashness about you or you’re cranky or you’re not happy, it just doesn’t work. And I think personally, I, you know, I had to tone it down. I’m a confident guy and there’s an element when I look back on my business, you’ve gotta change your tonality and you’ve gotta change the way you do things at times. You know, there’s some customers you can be a bit stronger with and this is what needs to be done. And then there’s little old granny. Hi, and how are you today? And you’ve gotta do that. But I think that’s something for me, the whole body language and the way you speak is absolutely critical for all sales. Yep. And we’ve learnt so much from you over the years as well. So I want to thank you for that.

Ange
What’s your opinion about that, Louise?

Dr. Louise
About ah, just. Comment on Andy. Yeah. You know, Andy has a high twang in the voice, high twang, , uh, high carrying power, ah, cuts through.

 Andy
That’s for the hold of, now I hold my neck.

Dr. Louise
Um, it’s actually how you shape your throat like a megaphone. It’s called twang. And what happens is that sound cuts through walls now for many people and I do, I hear that energy, excitement, go-getter, do. If I were a little old lady , which I’m getting close to, yes. But if I were a little old lady, I might go, Hey, that’s too imposing for me. So can you change your voice? Yes, you can. You can totally change it. Think about all those actors who do the different accents and voices, and they’re changing it all the time, and yet many of us think we’re just stuck with the voice we’ve got. We’re not, change it. It’s a bit of fun.

Ange
And in your opinion, should we? Based on the different customers we see?

Dr. Louise
You bet, absolutely. You know it’s called rapport when people yawn. Have you noticed that when people yawn, everyone else yawns? And the reason that we do that is it is an ancient form of empathy. We imitate the throat shapes of the people around us. So if people are very soft, we need to go soft with them and imitate their throat shapes. If you are not doing that, in fact, people who don’t yawn and you yawn are psychopaths, and somebody, and somebody told me the other day, that’s Tinder 101. Hard to know that to get you.

 Andy
You know what, I’ve got a story on that. One of my best mates, he used to say, watch this, Andy. And would be, you know, in a group and there’d be a mixture of boys and girls. And he goes, oh, do you ever throw the fake yawn out? I said, what do you mean? He goes, I always throw these fake yawns. Oh. I said, what do you do that for? And he said, Because I know if the girls are looking at me, I know which ones I’m getting the attention from. I’m like, are you serious? Yeah. It’s funny. It’s funny, isn’t it?

Dr. Louise
That’s really sociopathic behavior, I have to say. I love it. We can, the wisdom of the psychopath, I’ll just say that. Working with your voice and body. We’re doing it for the client, and that’s body language. It’s perception. It’s trying to get the perception right. However, there is a second half to this story and the second half is that this is really about personal development. It’s fun. It’s about knowing about yourself, so it’s not about being inauthentic. It’s about learning. It’s about learning how to work with others and it’s good for you. We’re not just pandering to others and trying to sell all the time. We’re actually trying to work with others and capture their energy and be reflective in our body.

Ange
That’s a really interesting comment because not only do trade business owners clearly work with different customers, but for a lot of trade business owners, Louise, as you are one of us, in your past, they actually work with their partner. So as often husband and wife teams. And when they first met each other, they, you know, they, they knew each other as friends and were having fun and adventure. And then all of a sudden as time goes by and they get married and have children and then organically. She often gets pulled inside the business because she gives up her corporate job. She ends up having this child and she says, oh, uh, you know what? I’ve got a little bit of time on my hands. How about I help you out? And he goes, yeah, cool. You can do the books. And she goes, oh my God, my background’s marketing. I don’t like books. And then all of a sudden they have this totally different dynamic now going on and having to try and balance what they do during the day as business people, business partners, to then coming home and actually trying to switch off. I’d really love your opinion about what you can teach us and teach our listeners about body language and or vocal intelligence that can help us as partners in business.

Dr. Louise
Mm. Boy does this ring true because of course, when I’m married, you know, my husband, we’d been married about ten seconds and he passed something over and I said, what’s that? And he said, the books. And I’m like, I beg, I beg your pardon. You know, I’ve got a PhD in business. I’m not doing your bloody books. Um, the reality is I wish I had done the books because I wish I had my finger on the finance, quite frankly. Mm-hmm. Um, and there’s another topic, but um, What you find with conflict is that in the building industry, it’s very much a blue collar working environment, so it’s mite is right. Body size is important, volume is important. Imposing on people’s pace is important, and there are a lot of bullying techniques. If I may be so frank, you know, it’s an, I know where you live. Constant repetition of email, email, email, email. Do this, do this, do this. Phone calls, you know, I’ve had it just this week I had some excavation work done, and on seven days of invoice paid, I’ve had three invoices from this bloke of phone call and a phone call to my colleague who booked the work, and I’m like, Mate loosen up, you know?

 Andy
Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Louise
Uh, loosen up. I bet, a busy week. Anyway, you know, so that’s very much the technique and one of the techniques verbally is that it’s aggressive sound, it’s confrontational, and they will throw back. This is a technique. The process is they throw back. So if you say, why isn’t this wall finished? The tradie will go. Well, it would be if you’d got us the bricks on time. So suddenly it gets thrown back to me, and this is a pattern. It sounds really menial, but actually I see that pattern over and over and over again. So it goes, why is this orange? When I said it would be blue, well you wouldn’t know what orange was and always this pattern of throwing back the problem. And in other worlds, other than the tradie world, this is not suitable behavior. So that means with your partner, it means. Architects because they work a different way. It means with other people within the industry, other than those hands on, we will not tolerate these bullying processes.

 Andy
Yeah, no, a hundred percent agree. And I, there’s no doubt at times, you know, as tradies, we get frustrated and we use it as a blame game. And instead of just saying, you know, and this is one thing that I’ve talked to a lot of our members over the years about, I know you talked to them just last year when you spoke to them all, but there’s an element in the customer service point of view that when things aren’t going as well and the customer isn’t as happy and they’re having a little bit of a shot at you as tradies. We fire back and we put it back on them and yeah. Um, in our industry, it’s all around banter and having fun. And, and I know a lot of us love a bit of banter, but tradies are quite good at turning a situation around back onto the other person. And it’s not acceptable to be doing that to your clients because it can really backfire and then all of a sudden you’re losing.

Dr. Louise
Oh, you’re right.

 Andy
You trust that or, or definitely your wife. You certainly can’t be doing that. And you know, no doubt we’ve all been there. I’ve been there as well. Sometimes you know, you get so frustrated and upset, you do say the wrong thing, but it’s about understanding that better.

Dr. Louise
Here’s the technique, Andy, is to understand it’s a patent and it’s a learnt patent within the industry. And then to adopt another patent. So if I may share the patent that works for difficulty is what I call a kung fu technique. So instead of actually going bang against them and throwing that ball back. You go with them now you can use, uh, one of four words. It’s, that’s, thank you, or I’m sorry, da, da, da. That happened for you. They’re the four choices. So you might go, somebody says, why is this wall finished? You might say, ah, it’s so annoying, isn’t it? When the wall’s not finished. Yeah, so you actually go with them, not against them. And this is the kung fu where they never go against the energy. They always go with the energy, turn the body around, and then kick back. Now turning the body around in conversation is actually to reflect back what the other party said. So what you’re saying is you are expecting the wall to be done by the 1st of April, and now it’s the 17th of April. So that’s the content. Then you say the emotion and that’s so frustrating. Or you might say, how frustrating when you are expecting the wall done. The first and the 17th. Yeah. Then and only then can you say, yeah, well if you’d given me the bricks earlier, it might have happened and you know exactly. You get away with it. Yes. If you do those other two stages and then like the kung fu kickback is done, once you’ve got that rapport of the empathy and the reflection, now why do we do the reflection? We do it for three reasons. One is that we actually, they’ve shown with research that when people are emotional, it’s very different to when they’re not emotional. When they’re emotional, you have to reflect back on what they said or they think you haven’t heard them. The second reason is that we don’t want to sympathize and start saying, I had a wall once that was built. So we, we reflect back what they said to understand it’s all about them. But thirdly is that sometimes people piss us off so much that we just can’t think. And actually by doing the reflection stage, you get time to think because the brain works a lot faster than the mouth. So in that time you’re saying how frustrating it was when you thought it was the first, and actually it hasn’t been done until the 17th. Now you’ve thought of what your answer is and you’ve also had time to calm down.

 Andy
That’s really good advice for all tradies out there is the kung fu method. Um, take the energy and don’t just conflict.

Ange
Agree with them first.

 Andy
Yeah. And, and there’s a, you know, we do talk with our staff a bit and when we’ve had complaints in the past, you know, the girls in the office have to take it on board. They say, we’ll get our tradie to give you a call. They repeat it all back. They make sure they’re calm, they never, ever question anything the customer’s saying. And we always say, And I don’t know, I think this is a good way for us, if we’ll give you a call by eight o’clock tomorrow morning.

Dr. Louise
Great.

 Andy
And it gives a chance for everyone just to calm down a bit, you know, because Yeah.

Dr. Louise
Brilliant.

 Andy
Sometimes just the people are so hot headed and tradies are known for being hot headed, let’s face it. Um, and it just gives it a chance to understand, you know, and there’s one thing that when we’ve had these issues in the past, it’s like, I, I totally understand. I can see where you’re coming from. I know exactly what you’re saying. But then I suppose that’s what you’re saying.

Dr. Louise
Oh, Andy, you’ve just hit some hot buttons. , you’ve hit some hot buttons. There are four illegal words in emotional situations.

 Andy
Oh, be that’s but one, no.

Dr. Louise
Yeah. But, is one of them. However, it is one. You didn’t say that. But the other two are I and understand. Uh, I and understand, a sympathy, not empathy. And basically if I’m someone, say, I’ll take the example, whose wall was needed to be built, to do two weeks ago. I’ve got a dog, it’s in a kennel, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Yes. You don’t understand. You know, don’t tell me you understand. You don’t understand. Yeah, I’m so, that’s why I would recommend you go, oh, it’s so frustrating. That’s terrible. Looks, thank you for sharing that. Or I’m sorry you’ve had that experience. They were the four choices other than I understand finding alternatives. Do I understand? Because that can get you in a pickle.

 Andy
Yeah, no. I suppose that’s, I have heard you say that before and I, and I forgot about that, but you’re exactly right. And you know, when someone, uh, depending on what their situation is, if you do say, I understand, they go, how do you understand my husband’s in the hospital with a broken back. Have you got a husband in hospital with a broken back? You know, so, no, I hundred percent agree with what you’re doing and I, I’ve gotta change that a little bit as well.

Dr. Louise
And it’s chronic, not, not just in building industry in the whole of Australia. Everybody says, I understand. And we’re following bad leadership in that area, so it’s hard to get away from that, but, well, I’m now saying, but , I, I wanted to add in the vocal tone when you are doing that empathy, it’s great to go. It’s frustrating, isn’t it? And then to say how annoying it is when you’re expecting, that’s when you’re doing that tone. But when you go back to listen to what we need to do, that’s when you can go back to your own tone. Yes. So you actually flip the tone as you kung fu, as you turn, when you come back with the punch, you go back with your energy.

Ange
Most tradies actually are solution oriented. Right?

 Andy
Exactly.

Ange
So they just switch directly into exactly what you just said there, which is exactly what we’re gonna do now and this is how it’s gonna be. And they totally forget about the empathy piece at the front.

Dr. Louise
What happens, how you know if you haven’t done the empathy in the reflection is the customer comes straight back in and says again. Yes, yes. I was expecting this wall to be done by the first. I was expecting. And you think, oh, I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that. We’ve handled that. Can we move on? And what we tend to do then is blame the other person. You know, God, they’re repeating themself instead, we need to go up. You know what? I haven’t reflected, this is my fault. I didn’t reflect, they don’t think I heard them. So there is, you know, a little bit better understanding about emotional conversation.

 Andy
Yeah, a hundred percent. And, and with being, you know, trade business owners, how do we incorporate body language and vocal intelligence to earn trust and ultimately make more profits? You know, we talk about communication skills and stuff, but yeah, what’s the best way with that?

Dr. Louise
Great. Well, I would highly recommend what I call a listening position. How do you at least look like you’re listening? There are three things that look like you’re listening. One is you nod your head. Now why we do this is because when we get defensive, we tend to jam the nick. We jam the nick. When we jam the nick, you get a bug. So we nod our head, which shows I’m not defensive. Now nodding fast says yes, but nodding slowly says I’m flexible of mind. Then we look at people. Eyes are on eyes. You don’t listen to people looking away. You look at people, listen to people looking at them, but we don’t wanna look like a psychopath. So we actually look at people and blink the eyes. What blink rate is every four seconds. So we are blinking at 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3. Nodding blinking. And the third thing is that you can’t have a tight mouth. Now again, we have examples out there that are not good for us. Scott Morrison Albanese. They’re all closing their mouths. Mm, tight while they’re listening. , they are. And it says, I’m not listening. It says, I’m, I’m disconnected. I have the power. And that’s not what an emotional person wants to see. So how do you loosen those lips? If you press your tongue to the top of your palate, you’ll actually loosen the lips. And what it does is it releases the tempo mandibular, which is actually just in front of your ears, and it’s the jaw. We’re wanting the jaw not to be aggressive. So my little mantra that I have for difficult situations, someone’s being difficult. I immediately stop, repeating to myself, no blink, smile like an idiot. No blink, smile like an idiot. no blink. Smile like an idiot. No blink. Smile like an idiot. And that will save your life.

 Andy
I agree with that. That is awesome. So obviously times have changed a little bit over the last couple of years and you know, we’ve always been taught to arrive at the front door and being a plumbing company, you know, we deal with some, some things we probably, not everyone wants to deal with, but a good handshake used to go a long way. Mm-hmm. . But in these times, what do you recommend that tradies do when they catch up with customers? And let’s face it, you know, there’s different customers along the way.

Dr. Louise
Great. Well, I was in Sydney yesterday and everybody shook my hand and I thought, oh, we’re back. And people often say, the handshake, it’ll never come back. Rubbish, rubbish. The handshake will be back so fast. It’s been around for thousands of years. We’ve had pandemics before. People have tried to get rid of it. It will be back. However, in the meantime, critical things that people want to see if you can’t touch them is they want your body open. So keep your arms off your body and I would suggest you open your arms wide to show your body. Now that screams trust. The other thing that shows screams of trust are palms of the hands. People want to see the palms of your hands, of your hi. How are you showing, putting your hands out to the side, showing your palms out and your body revealed that says, I am yours. I am here. I have nothing to hide.

 Andy
That’s absolutely amazing, and there’s no doubt about it. Us tradies, we are dealing with this all the time. And you know, the handshake definitely is in, and I still do it. I’m a cuddler and I think you know that, Louise, but I cuddle, I cuddle everyone. Um, I wouldn’t be rocking up to a house of no, someone that I don’t know, and the wife Sarah, and I’m giving her a big cuddle. But, uh, no customer, you know, most, most guys are happy with a handshake. I know that and, and it’s going back to normal. But if you are a female, um, at a house by yourself, with your kids and you rock up, uh, just your opinion. Did they wanna shake, you know, a plumber’s hands, especially a plumber, but a tradies hand? Did they want that interaction, do you think?

Dr. Louise
No. Look, , yeah, you wouldn’t do it today. But, you know, I, I might be, uh, older than most people here, but when I was a girl, my mother only had tradespeople come in the back door. Hmm. They couldn’t come in the front door today. If you did that. Wow. , if you did that, a tradie would just rip the house down. You know, you, you can’t do it. But look, I do, but I don’t think you can presume people wanna shake hands. Oh, I don’t know. A lot, a lot of people do it.

 Andy
It is strange, it is a strange thing at the moment, isn’t it? I think. What I’ve taught my guys is that if you rock up to the front door and you believe that that’s something we need to do, then we do. But most of the time when it’s the female at home, we just say, hi, Mrs. Jones, as you said, with open hands. Yes. Um, open arms. They’ve got their bag on their shoulder. Hi Mrs. Jones. How are you doing? I’ve heard you have a problem with ABC, you know, and, and that works really well. I think there is an element, um, um, of doing that. So listen, Louise, it’s been absolutely amazing chatting with you today. You’re an absolute superstar. You’ve done some amazing stuff with Lifestyle Tradie and our members, no doubt we can be better at it. I can just look back to our R&R that we had down in Kuji and after your presentation, everyone’s picking on each other and going, Hey, you got your arms crossed.

Ange
Don’t do that.

 Andy
Don’t do this. There’s so many things you need to learn, there’s no doubt about it. But what we do with all our guests is we play a little game at the end. Uh, it’s a rapid question, so . Okay. If it’s okay, we’re gonna throw some short, fast questions at you. You have a roundabout 30 seconds to answer them. Are you up for the challenge?

Dr. Louise
Okay, I’m up for it.

 Andy
Excellent, excellent. Okay, so let’s go. So what’s the biggest body language mistake people tend to make?

Dr. Louise
People stop breathing and they don’t know that they stop breathing. So we sort of. And there’s no air movement coming in and out of the body. Now, air movement, you know, we inspire others. Inspire to breathe, inspire. That means you have to get air out of your body and into the body of others. And when we stop breathing, there is no connection, no touch, no sound, no anything. And you look tense. You feel tense, and you completely destroy the energy. So, stop, breathe.

 Andy
Yeah, that’s a great answer. And I know there’s a lot of people that go, but I’m not good with communication. Well, if you are one of those people, then fix it. . Mm-hmm. . Okay. We’re gonna jump into the next one. What’s one piece of advice you’d like to give all tradies?

Dr. Louise
Oh, think, stop. Thinking about your body and voice. . We don’t think about it. We’re thinking words, words, words, solution, solution, solution. And every piece of investigation will tell you that that’s not what people want, and we have to get out of that game. We know you’re an expert at what you do now. Become an expert at communicating what you do.

 Andy
A hundred percent. I know even with Ed, sometimes when she’s had a bad day or something over the years, and us tradies sometimes go straight into this problem solver mode and we don’t give any loving, caring, just a cuddle. Yeah, because I don’t want you to solve the problem. I just want you to listen. . Yeah. So the last one, so what’s the best thing about being a body language expert? I know you’ve been doing it for quite a few years now.

Dr. Louise
Yay. Fun. Um, it’s fun. People love it and are fascinated by it to hear a different, uh, away. Apparently. As I said, it’s Tinder 1 0 1, a, a lot of it. And uh, I love it. You know, it’s a great observation. I can learn lots about people just by watching them. Aha.

Ange
I think this has been such gold for all of our tradies. I agree with you. They’re pretty epic with what they do with their hands, but they’re really not conscious about how they actually present themselves and therefore how a customer sees them and even their team. So there’s lots of this that people can take away. There’s no doubt. Your opera experience in the background of what you’ve done over the course of time has definitely armed you to be an absolute expert in what you’re doing. Thank you so much for sharing this with us today. It’s been amazing .

Dr. Louise
Thank you!

 Andy
Yeah, you’re an absolute superstar and we love having you a part and, and um, as Ange said, you know, your advice has been amazing and our tradies are using it a lot better now and getting some great results from it as well. So yeah, there we are. That’s a wrap for season one.

Ange
What a blast It’s been, thanks to you and all of our incredible listeners for following along. It’s been amazing.

 Andy
Yeah, it has sure been a lot of fun and keep an eye out for season two. Announcement is coming very soon and a big hell yeah. And I also wanna say, Louise, you are an absolute superstar. We love you so much. Thank you for helping us out over the years and no doubt we’ll be chatting very soon.

Dr. Louise
Thank you.