Why tradies need to get their SEO, Google and marketing strategies RIGHT — Guest starring Kate Toon, “Google Whisperer”

Kate
I love, I love my little self. I think I gave myself that title, but , uh, so I’ve been, I’ve been running my own business for about 12 years. Before that, I worked at big advertising agencies in the UK, America and Australia, including Ogilvy, and worked on some big brands and took all that experience into my own little business. I started out as a freelance copywriter, then moved into SEO copywriting and SEO kind of consulting. And about five years ago, I moved into passive income, and so now I don’t have any clients. It’s wonderful. Instead, I have thousands and thousands of customers and I teach those customers digital marketing, how to write copy, how to grapple Google, and how to market their business, whether they’re an e-commerce or a service provider, a tradie or whatever they wanna put out into the universe and be known for.

Andy
Yeah, there’s no doubt about it. You are a superstar, so it’s great to have you here. So it’s no surprise trade business owners and contractors, the one thing we always talk about is how can I rank first on Google? So what’s the best way for trade businesses to rank on Google?

Kate
I mean, it’s a big question, but I think the best starting point is to understand that there’s a kind of bit to the search engine. And the bit that the tradies need to focus on is local SEO. It’s very rare you’re gonna search for a tradie and not one that’s local to you. So the bits that we’re interested in are the local pack, the little map that pops up with the listings underneath it, and also the knowledge graph and Google My Business. I’m gonna get too techy, but Google My Business is really the main thing that tradies need to focus on. It’s a free page from Google where you can list all your services, you can have photos, testimonials, people can rate you, you can talk about where you go to the locations. You can have prices and offers and it’s completely free. And the hope is therefore, when someone types in, you know, plumber, Location that your Google My Business page pops up, or you pop up on the local business map.

Andy
Yeah, that’s fantastic. And I know that there’s a lot of people who don’t actually play in the map space, which is really interesting. But there’s a lot of tradies out there that are trying to get this very broad. I wanna be number one safer plumber, Sydney, you know, obviously we’re in Sydney, so for plumber Sydney, I wanna be number one. And they go to these so-called SEO experts, and I would say that, Out of, you know, I’d say 10 out of 10 people that talk to me that are doing SEO, there’s probably only one or two that are getting reasonable results, and they’re spending from three grand a month to five grand a month. And it’s just a really interesting space. And you know, if I go back a year ago, some people are like, SEO’s dead. SEO’s dead. Well, It’s not dead because I know a lot of tradies that are still getting a lot of work from SEO. So it’s such a hard place and there’s so many Google so-called experts using the fingers like you did that promise the world that they don’t deliver. And I’ve even heard from SEO experts, by myself, they go, I can’t promise anything, but the way we sell is the promise.

Kate
Yeah. It’s really tricky and I feel like a lot of people, uh, SEOs have a bit of a bad name. They can be seen as snake oil salesmen and cowboys, you know, they have, they have a bit of a rat. So there’s a few things to think about there. I’m gonna be perfectly honest. Ranking tradies in Google is one of the hardest verticals. Yes, for a lot of SEO agencies won’t even take you on. They’ll say, look, if you wanna rank for Plumber Sydney, it is gonna cost you five, six, $7,000. And most people can’t afford that. So if that’s you, you’re probably better off going for ads. Google ads, it’s gonna cost you a lot as well, but at least your guaranteed results cuz with SEO, there’s no guarantee. But the real trick that a lot of tradies miss out on is, yes, 70% of all searches, all business transactions start with a Google search. Yeah. So if you’re not on Google, you are not on the internet. So saying SEO is dead is just cray cray to me. But not everybody is searching for a plumber, Sydney. People are searching for problems that they have and they need solutions. But the best thing that Tradies can do is give their brand, their business a memorable name. And then what I’m doing is if you say to me, ah, yeah, I have this great guy who came and washed my windows. Bob’s Bubbles. Bob’s Bubbles. It’s the best. Then I’m not going to Google and typing in window cleaner, Sydney. I’m going to Google and I’m typing in Bob’s bubbles. And the likelihood is, if you are the only Bob’s bubbles and you are ranking number one. So building a brand rather than just trying to be found for what you do, being found for who you are is the real key for tradie success when it comes to Google.

Andy
I’m just going back through our journey and um, we had Dr. Drip, we were ranking okay for a while, but you probably hear of, um, is it black hat and gray hat? The way we were doing things back then wasn’t the precise way it was getting results, but it really bit us in the bum and we also had 110 suburbs sites. I realized there were keywords like, you know, Plumber Bondi, for instance. And we thought, hang on, if we could build a website for all of these. And was I the first one to think about that? I don’t know. But in the plumbing space, I was definitely the first one in Sydney to do that. And since then there’s been a million. But you know, we have been very successful with that over the years. But Google’s very smart, and over the years we’ve always tried to trick Google and do all these things to manipulate and try and make it work. But I have to be honest and say that at this point in time, we are not ranking that well at all. And a lot of our suburb sites aren’t as well. And we sort of spread our business too far and then we couldn’t afford to do everything.

Kate
Yeah. And I mean, that tactic used to work so good on you. 10 years ago that was a smart move. Now it’s absolutely considered black cat SEO. So doorway sites, doorway pages are actually gonna have a negative impact on your site. So those multiple pages and sites you have could be actually damaging your SEO. And that’s the thing, it’s hard for people to know what’s good and bad. Some SEO agencies will use black hat techniques, get you some quick results, then your ranking starts dropping, and then they’re gone. You can’t get hold of them. So my biggest tip for anybody going to work with an SEO company is please don’t get someone, a fiver or freelancer who has no reputation to protect, who can just disappear one day and come back with a new profile the next. In the same way that you would do due diligence if you were gonna hire a tradie. What would you do if you were gonna hire a tradie? How would you make sure that they weren’t a cowboy? You’d look at testimonials, you’d get personal recommendations. You’d get two or three quotes. You’d Google them, see what’s online about them. Do the same thing with SEO agencies. Make sure they’ve worked with the same types of clients as you, you know, if they’ve worked, if they’ve managed to get a local butcher to rank, it’s not the same as getting a tradie to rank. So make sure they are who they say they were. Make sure that they have a reputation to protect and that they have good testimonials. And you speak to one of their customers who is still a customer and has been a customer for at least a year. Because generally with SEO, it can take three months to a year to really see results. So if they’ve only been a customer for the last three months, they’re still in the good bit. You know, it’s like a relationship. The first three months are great. After that, you’re like, why am I dating this person? It’s the same with the SEO consultants.

 Ange
We’re certainly in this digital age right now where everyone, you know, we talk about with tradies about saying you need to have some sort of presence on the internet, and a website is definitely one of them. But right now we’re talking specifically around, I guess, Google ads too, and search engine optimization. To help all the tradies out there that perhaps don’t really understand. Can you explain the difference between the two?

Kate
Yeah. So paid ads are, you know, they’re paid ads, basically. They’re the ads you see at the top of the search results. Usually there’s three to four and they have the little word ad next to them. Now obviously with those, you pay your money, you pay for your click. So maybe you wanna rank for plumber Sydney, and you might find that that costs $22 a click. You know, so every time someone clicks and that goes to your site, you hand over $22 to Google. Now, that’s not guaranteeing that they’re gonna become a customer. So you have to hope that maybe out of every three people who click, you get one lead and that lead is worth more than 60 bucks, cuz that’s what you’ve just paid to get that lead. So the great thing about Google Ads is you can really hone the copy, you can pick your particular words and you know exactly what you’re in for. Oh, if I pay a thousand dollars, it’s gonna generate this many clicks, and I reckon I can convert many of those customers. So it’s much more transparent, but obviously very expensive. SEO is all the rest of the results. So everything under the ads organic search. So with that, it’s more of a gamble. You’re putting content out there and hoping that Google connects the dots. You don’t pay for it, but you obviously pay someone to help you do it. But the interesting fact is about 20% of the clicks. Go to the ads and 80% of the click goes to the organic. So there’s so much more traffic in the organic because we trust the organic more than the ads. We see the ads and we’re like, mm, someone paid for that. But again, a really interesting thing to put on that is, I mean, we can think about our own experience. If I’ve got a burst pipe and I need a plumber right now, I’m not trolling through organic results, I’m gonna look at the top ad and I’m gonna have to go for it. It’s like a locksmith. It’s one of the most competitive AdWord, because I need a locksmith right now and I’m not gonna troll through and read reviews and check your Facebook out and watch some YouTube videos. I just need you to come now cause I can’t get in. So I think it really depends on the type of business you have, the amount of customers you need, and how much money you have in your bank balance and how quickly you wanna get results. So Google Ads, quick, expensive, guaranteed. SEO, slower, more trustworthy, and no guarantees.

 Ange
Really good explanation. I wanna ask you a question specifically about SEO cuz you said slower. Uh, and in your opinion, does it last forever? Or how frequently are we supposed to be posting to ensure that we actually feature on organic?

Andy
I mean, I think, you know, it kind of does last forever. I always say SEO is not just for Christmas, it’s for life. So I have posts on my site that I wrote in 2009 that are still delivering about 4,000 people to my site every month.

 Ange
Wow.

Andy
Wow.

Kate
So it’s not like it used to be, again, back in the days of, of Dr. Drip, when you were starting off with your naughty tactics, you know, it used to be if you post a blog every week, your guaranteed results. It doesn’t quite work like that anymore. Your site has to be current, it has to be relevant, but you don’t need to be pumping blog posts out every week. You know, you’re better off building your brand on all the platforms, you know, so maybe you’ve got a little bit of a presence on Instagram, a little bit of a presence on LinkedIn. You’re doing a few Facebook Lives, you know, and then as we said, you’re building the brand. Not necessarily just relying on being found for location searches. So you’re building up the brands of, you know, when I presented at your wonderful conference, I gave you some examples of local people here who I follow on Instagram and they do these bathroom renovations and I just really like them now. I don’t need my bathroom renovated. But I’ve saved them cuz the day I do, they’re who I’m going to. I’m not going to Google and typing in bathroom renovation you minor. I’m gonna go back and find that brand because I like them and they’ve built a relationship with me. So I think SEO’s much more holistic than it used to be, and not so black and white.

Andy
And that’s great. That’s so good to hear that, because I suppose it’s changed along the way. You know, when I started first getting involved with Dr. Drip, SEO was certainly the big thing, but there were no AdWords. You couldn’t get AdWords back then. It was all about, we’re so old.

Kate
We’re so old.

Andy
Yeah, I know. I am. I am so, so old. And you know, it was such a, like, I was so competitive about it. I would click on Plumber Sydney every half an hour to see where I was ranking. Now, you know, And we did dominate the number one in Plumer Sydney for quite a long time. But then obviously we had the suburb sites that come along and did very well. And at one stage we had 90 of our 110 websites, number one, and also Dr. Drip was number one, and we were absolutely dominating the space. Times changed and the black hat and everything we did along the way, and then AdWords started coming in, and AdWords at the start was reasonably cheap and we were getting good results. And a lot of tradies weren’t used to, you know, spending a lot of money on marketing or maybe they couldn’t afford it. So the bigger guys were starting to get involved. And then AdWords started going really well. And then people started shying away from SEO. And I’m not doing SEO now because it’s too hard. I’m just gonna do AdWords. And they’re pumping all their money into AdWords. And now it’s sort of reversing back to SEO. I mean, we have some clients that we work with today that are spending between 70,000 and a hundred thousand dollars a month on AdWords, and it’s just absolutely incredible. And the only reason they can do it that way is because they’ve learnt the way to run a business and how to upsell and cross sell and do all that stuff through Lifestyle Tradie along the way so they can make it work, but they actually don’t make any profit. The first time the customers there, they’re making more of their profit when they come back time and time again. So they’re using it as a growth exercise cuz there’s people now that are doing AdWords and they’re just not getting bang for your buck. I think the last time we did it, it was $350 to get to the front door of Mr. And Mrs. Jones’ to knock on the door and then we’d virtually have to make another $300 to break even. So the bigger boys are charging pretty big dollars and they make it work. If you love that or hate that, that’s, you know, that’s the line in the sand that each business has to do. But now coming back, I’m looking at all the new businesses coming through and the younger businesses coming through and people that need this marketing, they can’t afford to play in the AdWord space. Mm-hmm. . So now SEO is becoming such a bigger thing and more people are being involved in it, aren’t they?

Kate
Yeah. I think the thing to understand is that yes, You know, I don’t do Google AdWords. I can’t afford it. You know, I go for like, even if I was trying to bid for an SEO course or something like that, it would be astronomically expensive. So I don’t want to do it. Instead, it’s the tactics that I talked about before, especially if you are a new business and maybe slightly more okay with social media than some of the old Duffers. You know, you can be on TikTok making fun little videos. You can be making reels of yourself, fixing things. You can be posting on Instagram and Facebook, and Snapchat. You can be using all the different social media platforms in a way, some of these bigger, more traditional companies can’t, you can be more nimble, more playful with your brands. And I think that’s a real opportunity because I think, you know, as we said, we’re both really old. We were doing SEO when we were doing SEO, you know, when it was all fields around here and we had wooden computers. Yes, , , it’s, it’s changed. And you just, if you can’t come you just don’t, there’s no point competing in that arena. You know, the gladiators are a different type of, you gotta go into your own arena. And I think what a lot of the bigger companies aren’t realizing is that a lot of marketing these days is about building relationships. It’s about that. No, like and trust. People wanna buy from people who they feel have similar values to them. So how do I know what your values are? Unless you’re on various platforms talking to me about what your values are and showing them through what you’re doing. You know, here’s me doing some plumbing, but the next post is me and my dog on the beach, cuz I love my dog. Oh well I love dogs too. And I’d much rather have a plumber come to my house that loves dogs. Mm-hmm. It’s that kind of thing. So I think that’s where we can really win. It’s slower and it feels more ephemeral. It’s not so direct. I give my money, I get my customer. But yes, over time, it has a bigger impact.

Andy
And I do think there has been that changing in the guard, right? And I think in the old days, most, you know, not most, but a lot of customers out there didn’t understand that they’re the paid ads, the three at the top and the running down the side and how they were the paid and these were the organic. But people do understand that now and people go, well, I don’t want to go to someone that’s advertising to me. I want to go to someone that’s local that is, um, relatable to the actual keywords that I put in, and that’s why SEO is becoming bigger and content writing and everything you do, Kate is really stepping it up for the smaller businesses and trade businesses coming through to get results.

 Ange
Kate, you’re the expert here. I’d be really interested to ask the question of, you know, you’ve talked about utilizing different social platforms. Is there a ratio of where we should spend our time, in your opinion?

Kate
Well, I think you need to think about where your customers are and I think, you know, so if you are very much in the renovation space. Well, we know that’s very visual. Your customers are gonna be on Instagram and Pinterest. That’s where they are. You know, if you are just somebody that goes in and does fixes and you know men’s things, then it’s probably not gonna be right for you. But even with that, we’ve gotta think about, you’ve mentioned it before, word of mouth recommendations and lots of tradies go, I don’t need a website. I get all my work word of mouth until I don’t, until that dries.

 Ange
I hear it a lot.

Kate
Yeah. And it’s like Google is word of mouth. There’s some statistic by Yakob Nielsen that says something like, 71% of people believe reviews from strangers more than they do recommendations from friends. So, you know, and again, it’s a local thing. I don’t want a plumber from work, whoop, I want a plumber from you, minor. So what else can you also do in your local community to build up that reputation? Maybe it’s sponsoring the local NRL team. Maybe it’s flying your local tower, which sounds so old school. Maybe it’s making magnets and popping them through. I’ve got, my fridge is covered with magnets. They sound like old school methods. What they’re doing though, is making your name top of mind. Now, probably what I’ll still do at the end of the day is go to Google and type your name in, but you’ve done a lot of work to make me remember you. And I’m not typing in plumber y minor. I’m typing in Bob’s Bubbles or Dr. Drip. Because you’ve made me remember you. So it’s trying to be relevant and memorable, I think is really part of it. How’d you do that? Yeah, it’s gonna be different for every business, and it’s gonna depend on your personality and what you wanna do. You know, some of us are happy dancing on TikTok. Some of us aren’t , but you know, there’s different strategies for different businesses, I think.

Andy
Yeah, and I think the big thing you said there is really, cuz there are ups and downs, the in thing, the not in thing, and they’re coming back. And there was a real element years ago when magnets were the things to do and I think we did about 300,000 magnets, which is actually not a lot of magnets compared to some of the companies out there, but, You know, we sort of broke even in the first year. Made a bit of money the second year and the third year better build a database. It was quite strong. And then there was an element, oh, magnets don’t work anymore because everyone’s got stainless steel fridges and they don’t stick anything to their fridge anymore. And people make all these assumptions, but that’s not true. Magnets are still worth, I love, I know people that are using them, using them today and it’s working. So I think the biggest thing is having a solid marketing plan, and I also teach with our guys is, you know, you don’t have to spend a shy load of money on marketing. You can do the basic things that are cheap first, and there’s no doubt about it. Kate, you’re known as the Google Beast Tamer. So what other suggestions do you have for these business owners and how to be found online?

Kate
I think, you know, just to reinforce Google My Business, I’m just gonna say it again. Google My Business. If you don’t have that set up, that’s one thing that you should do immediately after this podcast, then these guys are gonna keep you accountable. Number two is just having a fairly decent website. It doesn’t need to cost a fortune. You know, a simple homepage and a page that talks about you as a human, um, listing out your service. I think having pricing, you guys might disagree. A bit of pricing upfront makes life a lot easier for me. You know, good contact page with multiple different ways of contacting you. Let me call your mobile, have a landline, have a contact form if you’re feeling cool, have WhatsApp as well, whatever, but you know, Again, we talked about word of mouth and you’ve mentioned frequently as well, how the first time a customer hits you is probably not the time you’re gonna make the money. The money is when they come back again. Again. So really think about your loyalty programs. Why do I get a discount the first time I use you? But then I come back to you and I get nothing. Surely I should get a discount the second time I use you or something. A free hat, another magnet. Give me something. Make me come back because otherwise, what’s my incentive to use you again, other than the fact that you did a good job. I could get a cheaper job. You know, unfortunately these days people are very price orientated. They’re not as loyal as we hope they would be. So I think loyalty is a really important strategy as well. I’m not just thinking about the first customer, but thinking about the repeat customer.

 Ange
I think what you’ve highlighted is the fact that every trade business owner needs a really strong marketing plan. They really need to understand who their avatar is, you know what we call the avatar, who their target audience is, so they can be really specific to ensure that they’re using the right messages, the right language, and positioning yourself in the right mediums that these guys hang out.

Kate
Yeah. One other thing to raise, cause I work with a lot of tradies. I’ve had a lot of tradies come on my course. You know, often it’s not the tradie doing the marketing. It’s the partner.

 Ange
Yes.

Kate
But at the end of the day, it’s, this person is gonna come into my home. It’s quite an intimate thing, having some tradies come into your house. So the more I can feel confident that I know this person before they come to my home, I’ve seen pictures. I know what they’re kinda like. I’ve heard their voices. That makes me feel much more comfortable about inviting a complete stranger into my bathroom. You know? So again, that’s another thing that we need to do. You know, all these kinds of tradies going, I don’t take photos of me for Instagram. I don’t wanna, I’m in, get off. You know, you’ve got to be willing to do that because ultimately I’m the, probably the one booking you and I wanna feel confident that I know who you are before I invite you to my house. You know, that’s, that’s

Andy
I wanna, and I think a big thing there is, you know, I, I’ve got a head, like a drop pie and, um, but I’ve, but I’ve got a beautiful shot for radio and I’ve got a lovely personality, don’t I, Ange? A nice personality.

Kate
That is the best expression. I’m face, like a dropped pie. That is, I’m stealing that.

Andy
Oh dear. And I, but I think the big thing is a lot of people are afraid to get in front of a camera to get their photo taken for whatever reason that they hold. But for me, I am who I am and, and you, you love me or you don’t. And, and that’s fine with me, but you’ve gotta get into that position. And I think with customers, with everything that needs to be done these days, you need a really good marketing mix of everything. We’ve talked a little bit about SEO and AdWords, but one of the main things you really specialize in as well is really around content marketing, and we hear so often, how do I write content? Yeah. What should I do? I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.

Kate
I think most people overthink it, you know, they’re like, they have to have an amazing strategy and a plan, and I mean, yes, fantastic. We’d all love to do that. I’d love to have six weeks worth of content planned out. I barely planned out today’s content. So I think don’t underestimate how much people enjoy just an off the cuff post about something that’s happening. You know, I think with content it’s good to kind of have people call ’em content pillars. It’s like three or four different ideas. Like, I’m gonna share a customer of the week, I’m gonna share a tip, I’m gonna do an on-the-job post, and I’m gonna do a behind the scenes post. You know, that’s it. If you, if you just did those four posts and just rolled them again and again and again, oh, I’m out today. Look, I’m in oii and I’m fixing this today, and there’s a photo of you going like that, and this is what we’re fixing and we’re using this timber and we’ve got these nails and this is how we’re drilling the hole. Fantastic. Then the next day, it can be the number one tip. If you’re gonna drill a hole, make sure you put some goo in the wall. I don’t know, I don’t know anything about it , but you know what I mean.

 Ange
Job.

Andy
Hundred percent and I think the other thing on that is, um, you know, I had some of the guys we work with and they go get a pie from a local fantastic pie shop talking about, I talking about pies earlier. Hey Jess, can you buy me a pie for later ? No. But um, I, I think the big thing was they’re going into this pie. Oh, I’ve just had the best pie. And it’s in their local community. They get the photo with their best pie. Yes. And the pie shop loves them. Yes. People in the neighborhood, in the town or whatever, they love them and it’s just getting your face out there more.

 Ange
That’s it. One of our members actually up in Queensland does a Friday cake day. Yes. So they either bake themselves or they do highlights like a patisserie or whatever from the local area. And they do it and they’re so consistent. They do it every single Friday. But you watch the number of their own customers starting to comment all the time about how fantastic their range of, you know, I love patisserie items are for you.

Kate
Yeah. It’s, and this is it. Because it takes a village, you know, to talk about word of mouth recommendations. It’s not necessarily that it has to be a customer. As you said, you know, you go into that pie shop, you leave your magnet in the pie shop. Yeah. I’m just, I’m obsessed with magnets. You’re obsessed with pie , and you know, or you’re having a chat with the local person, you’re new to the area. When I moved to my local area, I would literally go into local shops and say, do you know, are you really a good electrician? And the people in the shops would tell me, Because I didn’t have any people to ask yet, so that is so important. But I think that, you know, the main thing is don’t overthink it. It doesn’t need to be genius. Don’t worry about typos and spelling mistakes. I’m a professional copywriter who gets paid an awful lot of money to write a copy for big brands. I still make typos. You know what? Typos are relatable. They don’t make you any less professional. And you know what? If you put a typo and a post, you get twice as much engagement cuz half the amount of people go, you felt that wrong. And you go, brilliant , thanks for boosting me in the algorithm. Thanks very much. But I think people overthink it and they think, I’m not a good writer and I’m not a good photographer. Yeah. And it’s like, really it doesn’t matter, you know? And it doesn’t matter if you’re ugly or your face looks like a drop pie. Not that you are, you’re dashing. For those of you who can’t see him, he’s dashingly handsome. I can’t look at the screen.

Andy
Thank you.

Kate
It’s just about being relatable, you know? And it’s often not the good looking people that are relatable. It’s the average looking people who are relatable, you know?

Andy
And I know, like talking about the shops. I know that we work through a few hairdressers and we always look after our hairdressers because who talks the most? Oh my God. So we get a lot of customers through hairdressers. So a bit of a tip for all your tradies out there. Make sure you’re going in there and, uh, seeing these hairdressers. So Kate, if you had one piece of advice for trade business entrepreneurs out there, what would it be?

Kate
I think overarching. Don’t overthink your strategy. At least try and have a bit of a plan. It’s an elaborate tip now, but Google My Business, I’ve said, I think I’ve said that three times. Google My Business. Yes, Google My Business. Google My Business. But secondarily, I think it’s not about being consistent necessarily. It’s not about posting the perfect post with the most beautifully crafted copy. It’s just about showing up. Putting yourself out there and trying to be memorable and relatable, and really, that’s for all businesses. That’s what we are trying to do with our businesses as well, isn’t it? Right? You know? Yes. Uh, it, it’s no different. It’s no different. People just appreciate people who turn up and make an effort, and most people are looking for you to be successful. They’re gonna love your post. They’re gonna love your content. Don’t not do it cuz you’re worried about one troll called Kevin in a garage, right? And this post is rubbish. You know, who cares? Don’t let Kevin stop you from living your best life.

 Ange
That’s why I say I actually totally agree with that. People in general, regardless of our age, are too fearful about what other people think of us. And you know what? They actually don’t care.

Kate
No one cares. They’re too busy thinking about themselves. We’re all hundred percent deeply self obsessed. So yeah, .

Andy
Well, Kate, you’re an absolute superstar. You know how much we love you and you’ve helped us and our members out so many times, but we’ve got a little game we play. So,

Kate
Oh no.

Andy
For this game, I hope you love games. We do rapid questions. We’re gonna throw three questions at you. You have a roundabout 30 seconds to answer each question. Do you think you can do it for us?

Kate
Is there like sort of intimidating countdown music or,

Andy
Well, you’re not gonna hear it from us, but yes, there is gonna be. It’s like dun, dun, dun, dun dun. Here we go. We’re gonna hit it off. Right now. What is the biggest mistake you’ve made in business?

Kate
Worrying about what other people think about me and letting it stop me from living my best life.

Andy
Oh my God, how many of us could resonate with that? We’ve all done that. So what do you wish you’d known sooner?

Kate
Uh, how to, uh, manage my money. I wasn’t very good with money when I started and, uh, yeah. I’ve got a big tax debt, sort it all out now. But yeah, I wish I’d been a bit more financially literate.

Andy
Oh geez. There’s a lot of tradies out there that resonate with that. Definitely, you gotta know your numbers. Those that know me know I always talk about knowing your numbers, uh, and what is the best thing, I mean, there’s no doubt about it. You’re a serial entrepreneur and you’re amazing at what you do. What is the best thing about being an entrepreneur?

Kate
That I get to meet amazing people. Like you every single day. No, freedom.

Andy
Do you like the tone in that voice? Sexy? I was like, Ooh, .

Kate
It’s freedom. It’s creativity. I’m the captain of my own ship. I get to decide what I do every day. I’m not working for the man. That’s what the best thing is.

 Ange
That’s it. , totally. A hundred percent agree with you. You’ve been epic. We love chatting to you, Kate. We’re so happy that you joined us today.

Andy
Yeah. Kate, it’s been amazing having you here. Um, I know everyone would get so much, right, and I think for all of you out there, the moral of the story here is you don’t have to spend mega dollars to get results. And yes, sometimes you’ve gotta be in it for the long game, not just the short game. And you’ve gotta get the marketing mix right. So I really just wanna say a massive thank you to yourself, Kate. You’ve been amazing. We’ve loved having on board, and as I said, you’ve worked with us many times and our members have done very well working with you as well.

Kate
Thank you. Hashtag drop pay.

Andy
Thanks a lot, Kate. We will catch up with you very, very soon.