Having a tough day? The power of kindness with the incredible Kath Koschel

Ange 
We’re your hosts, Andy and Angela Smith, husband and wife team, and co-founders of Lifestyle Tradie. Are you ready to have some fun?

Andy
Hell yeah! Before we get cracking on today’s episode, as you know, we’re coming up to the end of the financial year and we have a deal for you. Book a free strategy call with me before June 30 for your chance to get $1,200 off your yearly Lifestyle Tradie membership. It’s a hundred percent tax deductible, but be quick. The offer ends June 30 and memberships are limited. Head to lifestyletradie.com.au. Terms and conditions apply. Okay. Wherever you are listening to The Tradie Show today, I want to warn you before we begin, you’ll be stopped in your tracks when you hear our guests’ story. It’s one of the most compelling stories I think I have ever heard. And you know what? She recently spoke at our Lifestyle Tradie event at our last R&R and literally nobody moved a muscle in the room for the entire 90 minutes.

Ange 
Correct. And today we are incredibly grateful to welcome Kath Koschel to the show. Kath has faced almost unimaginable hurdles. She’ll tell you all about it herself. It’s the way that she’s chosen to respond to these hurdles that you’ll find utterly empowering because everyone has their own hurdles.

Andy
She’s written a fabulous book titled Kindness: What Surviving On The Kindness of Strangers taught me about perspective, connection, and happiness.

Ange 
And if that wasn’t all, Kath founded The Kindness Factory, a global not-for-profit movement that inspires ordinary people to do extraordinary things.

Andy
She’s also a Gotcha4Life ambassador, a down to earth chick that we are so grateful to have on our show today. Welcome, Kath. Thanks for joining us in the studio.

Kath
Oh, guys, I’m stoked to be here. Thanks for having me. And, what a bloody welcome.

Andy
I love it. Love it.

Ange 
All truth. This is the point. Kathy, you really do have the most remarkable story. Is it okay that we start your story from the beginning?

Kath
Not a driver at all. Always a good place to start.

Ange 
Okay, question one then. Here we go. You are one of those people who had a crystal clear childhood dream. Can you tell us about your dream from this age of eight and how you pulled off what other people told you was absolutely impossible?

Kath
Yeah. Well I’m one of four kids, so I’ve got three older brothers. Uh, so I’m the only girl, uh, with three older brothers. I think mom wanted the princess. She was sort of waiting for the little girl to come along so she could put in the dresses and all that kind of stuff. And it wasn’t to be, um, so for her shattered dreams, but for me, I mean, you go, not that I would’ve had a chance to have it any other way. I loved having brothers. I loved having three older brothers. I wouldn’t have had it any other way. I loved my childhood. It was so good, but I think I always wanted to be a part of whatever it is that they were doing. So I wanted to be involved in whatever it was without playing with the train sets and I wanted to get involved in that rather than the dolls and all that kind of stuff. And mom signed me up for ballet, uh, when I was four. Um, I think to try and encourage a different path for me, but I just really wanted to be with my brothers. And so they were always constantly playing cricket in the backyard and um, in the local competitions and all that kind of stuff. And, um, that’s where I wanted to be as well. So I just fell in love with playing with them, but then also the game of cricket as well as that started to evolve. So at a very early age, I just became obsessed with this game of cricket, playing it with my brothers in the backyard. Then dad signed me up at the age of eight in the local boys competition. So I was the only girl there as well, and I just decided that would be a great career for me. I’m gonna play for Australia. That’s all I ever really wanted to do. Um, I just had ambition because I love playing so much. I think that’s just what I wanted to do for a career, but most people, I guess, don’t make it to that top percent of athletes that are able to play, uh, their way of playing the game. So as a professional athlete and all that kind of stuff, and for me, I was told at a pretty early age that the dream wasn’t really possible. So, I guess I lacked skill, uh, or natural ability. I made up for it, with hard work, grit, determination, et cetera. So I just kept training and playing and training and playing. Fast tracked my uni degree at a very early adult age. Uh, went over and played for Middlesex based outta the UK. And then spent two years there refining my craft until, uh, the phone started calling and they said, we’re gonna pick you for New South Wales. So,

Ange 
Wow. Woohoo.

Kath
So that was amazing. So it was like this childhood dream, uh, comes true, which not many people get to say that, uh, you know, that happened for them. And, and for me, it was just honestly one of the most euphoric feelings I reckon I’ve ever had to have worked so hard for something when everyone told me it was impossible and for it to come off, you know, it was a, a childhood dream coming to life. So it was a pretty special feeling.

Andy
So what happened next? Changed your life forever, you know? Do you mind sharing a bit about that story?

Kath
Yeah. So it’s not often that you hear broken back in the game of cricket or the sport of cricket together, but that’s, that’s my story. So, yeah, I’d been playing quite well. I was in the form of my life. I was a badass in the ball, like a beach ball and um, you know, a hundred after a hundred. And I kept presenting my case playing for New South Wales, et cetera. Um, but I knew that I had a bit of a, uh, a disc bulge in my lower spine, uh, that we’d scanned up, and I knew that there were risks in playing. But I also didn’t know that by playing what happened next could happen. So I was fielding in cover. Which is the position between the batter and the baller for anyone who doesn’t follow cricket. And the ball just got hit past me very quickly. It raced off to the boundary and I just thought I’ll wander on, on after it. Uh, you know, I couldn’t really stop it from getting to the fence and I’ll just throw it back in. And as I twisted to turn and chase, uh, the zisk that was prolapsed and bulging in my spine, it, it came out so quickly that, um, the two vertebrates had nowhere to go. They cracked onto each other. Part of the bottom vertebrate cracked off and went straight into my spinal cord. So I’ve broken my back. I’ve severed part of my spinal cord, I’m airlifted to the nearest hospital, and had five completely unsuccessful surgeries. And not only is this dream that I had since I was a little girl, just like literally vanished in front of my eyes, but you know, it was life in a wheelchair, a paraplegia, diagnosis, et cetera. So to go from one extreme to another was a huge shock to the system for sure. Until, yeah, one person basically said to me, a surgeon said, look, you’re young, you’re fit, you’re healthy. You qualify for a really new age surgery back then called a total disc replacement. Um, so there’s one surgeon in the country doing it based out of the Gold Coast. We’ll get you there, we’ll see if you qualify, and then off you go. So I went and had that surgery. Um, it was almost deemed a success immediately I started to regain feeling, et cetera. Had a bit of a rehab period, um, up in the Gold Coast until I was medically cleared well enough to fly back home. Um, got home, kept the rehab process going. Uh, and then sort of in an unthinkable way of the post-surgical complication led to me, uh, almost having my left leg amputated as a result of that surgery, which might be a, a story for another day if we don’t have time to flesh it out. But that then led to more surgery and then a very lengthy stint in rehab, so.

Andy
Wow.

Kath
Yeah, and I’d never heard of rehab for that. You know, I was 23 at this point in time. So I was still very young. Very young. And do you know what, when you’re 23 you think you’re so old. And so you do, you really do.

Ange 
That’s so true.

Kath
And I’m, I’m 35 now, and I look back and I’m like, God, I was just a kid. Like I was a punk of a kid too. Like, you know, you think you’re so invincible. Like I could, that could never happen to me. And you know, I’m like a brick wall and all that kind of stuff. And as an athlete, uh, for me, I’d, I’d been very one dimensional up until that point, you know, it didn’t revolve around cricket and anything. In the pursuit of the goals that I had, it really in my thought process. And I, I’d never heard of rehab for a lengthy period of time, like 12 months, which is what they sort of.

Ange 
It’s huge.

Kath
Yeah. And you, you start to become institutionalized, like because you’re, while you’re still connected by your mobile or your device or whatever it is. And back then, social media wasn’t huge. This is like 2012. It’s an interesting thing cuz you’ve got contact with the outside world, but you also, you don’t wanna get the FOMO by chatting to your mates and your family and all that kind of stuff. You just gonna then miss that and get sad that you’re in this shitty environment of rehab and having to grind your way through that and learning how to walk and all that kind of stuff. So I guess in some ways just, or I did, certainly I started to go into my shell a little bit and all that kind of stuff, but rehab was really tough for me. I was 23, I was still very young, very naive. I was convinced I was gonna get back on the park playing cricket for Australia, uh, and most of the people in front of me and all of the advisors, the doctors, and that was basically saying, let’s just focus on one day time, regaining some feeling, keeping your leg attached, and maybe even walking one day. So, Um, yeah, so, but it wasn’t all bad. I ended up meeting a fellow patient who I fell in love with, so his name was Jim, sort of a semi-professional sportsman himself. Um, Sparky by day as well. And when he got there, I guess I could see the overwhelm on his face. He sort of answered four weeks after my initial induction. Um, and then yeah, we, we, we, we fell in love, which is a little bit funny, um, cuz we found love in a rehab center. Um, yeah, I did and it was truly magical. As I said, I was very one dimensional. I’d had sort of high school crushes and, and things like that up until this point in my life, but never really a serious relationship. And I remember thinking three months into our relationship, I’m, I’m actually quite grateful I broke my back because I was so in love with him. Um, and so I found love in the most unlikely of places in rehab. Um, I really didn’t think too much about cricket at that point as well, which was something that I’d always built my identity around as well. So, You know, and, and I guess what made our time in rehab more bearable was actually dreaming of a life that would exist when we finished rehab. So when you’re in the grind of something every day, as probably many of the listeners know, like cuz no one’s unscathed from adversity, but when you’re in the grind of something, to have something to look forward to is often a really good thing. Like, because you can get yourself out of your own head and you can go, well it’s gonna be worth it because at the end of this I get this great life, or whatever it is. And so for us it was, you know, it would be four kids, three boys and a girl, just like my family. A house in Broadwater, in the Gold Coast, pet turtles, dogs, all that kind of stuff. Um, and really just made that environment and the grind our own and really pushed each other into recovery and really learning how to walk and all that kind of stuff. And, um, 12 months into our relationship though, uh, I was an outpatient. So I was visiting rehab three mornings a week and I could go home. I decided to transition into a job and all those sorts of things. Um, when Jim had a day to go, before he would to be considered the outpatient, um, you know, just put the lease on the house together and the dreams that I just referenced were about to come true. The very next day when, when that night he, he passed away via suicide.

Andy
Oh.

Ange 
Wow.

Kath
Yeah. Which, um, it, it just, uh, I guess as anyone would imagine it, it just left me so crushed. Um, As I said, I was still a kid. Um, and I had, I guess for me, losing the person who had given me so much strength in that environment, um, I felt so many things lost would be the first word that springs to mind. Um, you know, first I lose this dream of playing cricket. The thing that I’d that’s all I ever wanted to be. And then I lost the person who taught me that there was so much more life than playing cricket and hitting a ball around the park and all that kind of stuff. But I just kept thinking to myself, I guess in the, in the, in the immediate aftermath of his passing, I just kept thinking to myself, how, like, how has this happened? Why has it happened? How am I feeling this way? And then I’d look back on photos that we had together and we’d both be smiling in them and I’d say to myself, Geez, was he really happy? Was he actually happy? Because if he’s led to this outcome, how’s this happened? And not, was I not enough? I had to probably resign myself to the fact that our love was enough and it was true and it was real and it was as great and grand and amazing as I experienced all that kind of stuff. But I think I really had to hit rock bottom before I found a way out. And what I mean by that is not obviously, you know, rock bottom where you’re never returning or anything like that, but rock bottom in a way where I needed to break completely. Um, so I lasted 10 months after his passing until the enormity of my entire life to that point in time just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I just had a mental breakdown. And there are a few things that, you know, I found at Rock Bottom that really were the catalyst for me being able to rebuild my life. But I think we’re a great recipe for living a full life as well. Um, and I guess that’s what I get to share around the world. You don’t have to go through or endure to live a full life. Sometimes it can be a blessing in that we start to explore parts of ourselves that we wouldn’t normally have to without suffering. Um, and in that sense, suffering can sometimes be a good thing for some people, as much as it’s tough in the moment and all that kind of stuff, but, For me, I’m such a self-reliant person and it’s something, it’s a work in progress. I have to work on that every single day. But, um, because I’m so independent and self-reliant, I had to figure a few things out for myself in those rock bottom moments for sure.

Andy
Wow, wow.

Ange 
So something profound actually happened at that time that pretty much transformed your life. Do you wanna tell us about that?

Kath
It did. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, as I said, I lasted 10 months until after his passing, until I just hit that rock bottom. And for me, the only logical step I could think to take was to get to the Gold Coast, cuz that’s where we put the lease on the house and we’re gonna start our life and do all that kind of stuff. And so, Got a ticket to the Gold Coast, and I didn’t know how long I was gonna stay there. I didn’t know what was gonna happen. I genuinely never thought I’d be happy again. I, you know, forget happiness. I genuinely thought I’d never smile again. I’d, how do you come back from that? Um, and something amazing happened. I ended up spending three weeks there in total. And halfway through that period, I sat down at a coffee table. It was at Jim’s mom’s house, and I don’t know, it must have been there for a shopping list. I think it was a blank sheet of paper and a pen, and I don’t know why, but I just kept looking at this piece of paper. And for whatever reason, it was the first moment I think I’d allowed myself a moment to breathe and to take in my environment and all that kind of stuff. And I just kept thinking of all these people who had shown up for me in my life, my family, my mom and dad, my brothers, my friends, um, doctors, physios, et cetera. And I just wrote their names down on this list and I remember it just gave me goosebumps thinking about it again. I remember when I finished that, like one name turned into 10 and next minute it’s like a full sheet of paper, like 30 names on it. And I remember so vividly picking up this piece of paper and holding it in front of my face and just going to myself, you know what, if nothing else, if you can’t do this for yourself, do it for these 30 people. Cause they’ve always shown up for you. They’ve always believed in you and they have never wavered in their support. I thought these are 30 reasons to keep going. And it was so profound for me. And you know, it wasn’t like I swallowed a magical pill where my life was amazing. It was far from that. But it was the first step that I had to take in recognizing that I was truly lucky to have those people around me. Not many people have that many people, and sometimes people lack to see that they have support around them and things like that. Um, but it was the first step in finding myself again, I think.

Andy
Yeah. And I, I think that’s something that you know, really resonated with me when you, we’ve talked to, um, our group in the past is, you know, you’ve been through so much and obviously the story continues, but you’ve been through so much. The support around you has really helped you get through it, hasn’t it? Your family, your friends, and everyone, and just holding that list up and, and at that point, looking at it and saying, well, I’m not gonna do it for me. I’m gonna do it for them. Like, that brings a tear to my eye, you know, it’s beautiful stuff. And, where did you sort of go from that? Like when you’re like, I’m gonna do it for them. What, what was the next step? Where were you going with that?

Kath
Well, the next step was really just gratitude in action. And, and something that I asked it’s your group to do. Live on stage was to think of someone in their life that had made a difference. Or had shown up for them, or who was always there to support them. It could be a spouse, friend, child, whoever it is. Colleague. When was the last time that you thanked them for being in your life?

Andy
True.

Kath
And for showing up for you or for laughing uncontrollably with your last time that you did that, your belly hurt and all that kind of stuff. Moments.

Ange 
Taking it for granted, don’t we?

Kath
We do and probably, I dare say I would hate to sort of, you know, generalize too much, but I reckon every person listening to this podcast would have someone that supports them in their life.

Andy
Definitely.

Kath
We do, like we are so privileged in this country, the majority of us, to live the lives that we do, especially if we’re fortunate enough to have devices that we can listen to a podcast on, right? We all have a friend, we all have a family member, we have someone, a colleague, whoever it is. That supported us at some point in time. So there’s not many people I think that could probably put their hand out on us and go, I can’t think of anyone. We can and if you can’t, you’re probably not thinking hard enough.

Andy
You’re right.

Kath
So I’d, I’d challenge anyone who’s listening to do the same. So for me, the next step was simply to pick up my phone and call every single person on that list just to say thanks. So the first was my doc, uh, doc watch. And he must’ve seen my name flash up on the screen. He picks up like almost immediately, hardly called. And he just goes, oh my God, what have you done moving broken? How do I help?

Andy
Know you too well?

Kath
Yeah. I said, nah, doc, I’m, I’m, mate, I’m just calling to say thanks. And he’s, he just sort of said, for what? And I said, well, just for being in my life, I think you saved my life. You definitely saved my leg. Um, and I don’t think I’d beat you without you. And, he was just dumbfounded. He said, what, what on earth do you mean, Kath? This has been the biggest privilege of my career. But mate, to hear from you, to know that you’re okay and you’re gonna be okay, I, I just need you to know I’m really proud of you and I remember hanging up the phone. I said, thanks, doc. And I said, actually, while I’ve got you, can you pass on a couple of other people’s numbers who I didn’t have, cuz they’re on the list too. Uh, and then, you know, calling my mom and who was so worried about me at that point. I mean, I, I’m not a parent, you guys are, uh, I just can’t imagine what it would be like to be my parents. They’re bloody amazing people.

Ange 
I can’t imagine being a parent watching, knowing that I am a mother of two children. I can’t imagine what was going through your parent’s minds watching you in bed. Cuz our sentence is always, if I could swap places with my child, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Kath
Yeah. Yeah. And there’s been so many moments in my life where my best friend said that to me. My parents have obviously said that to me. Like I’m, I’m so lucky and or you don’t need to go too far to look for perspective in this world. I believe if you live in Sydney or any major city, go out into the city after eight o’clock you’ll see a community of homeless people. Next time you see one, have a conversation with him. What I’ve realized in doing that, just saying Good day and not even giving them the cash. Once I invited one of them to dinner, he was like, can you gimme some money for food, for dinner? I, I’m not gonna give you the money, but come with me. You can sit with me and we’ll sit in the restaurant and eat together. And I said, so what’s the story mate? So he’s telling me about it and he’d of course endured some form of adversity. And for him it was that he’d just fallen through the cracks where people had given up on him. It gotta be, it became too hard. It could have been a result of, well, outlets in the family, like drugs, all that kind of stuff. And I realized in talking to a lot of homeless communities, not that we’re different in people, in experiences, in adversity. But in that, I’ve always had support. I’ve always had people show up for me and I could have easily fallen through the cracks if I didn’t like the choices that I could have made without friends sort of showing up and saying, I don’t think that’s the greatest idea for you. Could have easily fallen through the cracks. And so that’s what I mean by I guess I’ve, us as listeners and the three of us in this room right now, having this podcast, we are very lucky that we have these support mechanisms in place. Not everyone can say the same, but for the majority of us, I think we, we can all think of someone that we’re grateful for that’s shown up for us that we probably just need to give a buzz and thank.

Ange 
So true. People that just hold us accountable to.

Kath
Yeah, tough showing up, tough love, soft love, whatever love that.

Andy
And I challenge everyone out there listening now to think of that one person that you need to reach out to. And um, you know, after listening to our podcast, get on the phone, give them a ring and tell ’em how much you love them and tell ’em what they’ve done for you and I think we all forget how much our family and how much our friends give to us every single day, and we do, we take it for granted, don’t we?

Ange 
Yeah, we do.

Kath
Definitely in, in every interaction though as well. Like, can you look after my kids? Can you pick ’em up from this? Can you even just chat on the phone like yeah, I’ve got a call list. Like I’m not big on like, I listen to the radio and that if I’m in the car, I’ve got like that favorites folder on your phone.

Andy
Yeah. I like to just scroll, scroll through it.

Kath
Through them. Yeah. It’s just a good way to stay in touch with people.

Andy
Love that. Yeah, I absolutely love that. And obviously you travel the world so much, so Yeah. When you’re around,

Kath
Favorites, listen, clap big by now, so.

Andy
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, Kath, you did a burpee challenge. Can you give us a bit of an understanding about what that was all about?

Kath
Huh? You made it sound like it’s an actual thing.

Ange 
It was an actual thing.

Kath
No, I mean, like, you know, like you,

Andy
No one loves burpees. Let’s just say burpees are one of the worst, worst things you can do. Anyone that wants to do bur burpees. I’m like, oh my God, that’s hard work.

Ange 
You did it for torture.

Kath
Yeah. When I say thing, you know, you like you got the world’s greatest shave and all that. You, you made it sound like the bird getting challenge wrinkles. No, so, so what happened was, uh, you know, after that moment of reflection where I called those people, uh, I just kept reflecting and started going on a bit of a growth experience myself. You know, I think I realized there was, and this is probably something that anyone can, I don’t actually, I don’t think I’ve ever said this out loud, but, um, we’re, we’re all always accountable for our own actions and our own happiness. So life for anyone’s not gonna be perfect. Mine certainly hasn’t been, and there’s been so many things that have happened to me, but at the end of the day, the way that I think I’ve always been able to push through and find a way has been that no one’s gonna do this for me. Like, if I’m learning how to walk again, like I can feel sorry for myself and I did, like, I’m not perfect. Uh, I can sit there and feel sorry for, sorry for myself. And while I, in the pity of all that, and, and rightfully so, I’d be very entitled to do that. But for me, the obvious choice became. The worst thing I can do here is not try. I think the, the same can be said for any experience in life and,

Andy
Agreed.

Kath
Yeah. For me, I think I sorta, you know, at that rock bottom moment, gratitude was the catalyst for turning it around, but then I was like, you know what? Just because of my past doesn’t mean I can’t live a life that I’m proud of. So, That was my goal, then it was to find purpose or happiness or whatever it was. Not necessarily through athleticism or playing cricket again, but just through experiencing life. And so a common question I got asked a lot of people was, if there’s anything that stands out throughout your struggle, what is it? And I, I think I used to floor people and I’d say, well, it’s, it’s kindness. So what on earth do you mean? How? How? How is that a thing? You know, you’ve suffered trauma and grief and loss and, and I was like, well, I guess when you’re in a wheelchair, like I have been, you can’t reach a lift button and a random stranger walks past and they see that struggle and they press the button for you. It means nothing to their day, but everything to yours. Those are the moments that I’ve found to be so powerful. Bigger than any other thing that I’d experienced throughout that period. So that’s when I created this Kindness Factory movement. And I was just obsessed with this notion of giving back and I ended up meeting Mel, who was a bit of a hero of mine, uh, because I came so close to having my leg amputated. Um, her organization, limbs for Life for a peer-to-peer kind of platform actually supported me throughout that really big ordeal that I was going through. And I just felt quite grateful. So I arranged a meeting, like a coffee with her and she’s just a really cool chick, like just no fast, like a bit rough around the edges, like me. I’m sure she wouldn’t mind me saying that, and we just got on like a house on fire. And anyways, I just, I’m such a curious person. Like I’m always asking people I other questions and wanna know heaps about them and stuff. And so Mel, before you go, can I ask a personal question? Say, oh, I probably should say Mel. The reason she founded the organization is, she’s got no legs, so she was completely able-bodied and a pretty serious accident happened. She lost both of her limbs, her legs. And I said, can I ask a personal question? She said, yeah, of course. And she doesn’t mind me sharing. I said, what is it they miss most about having two healthy legs, like normal, healthy legs? And she just said that in the most ridiculous way possible, you’re probably gonna laugh at me, but I really miss being able to do burpees.

Andy
Wow.

Kath
Yeah. And like you guys, burpees are disgusting. Like who? Who would miss burpees? And she said, look, I used to be into fitness and. In psychology, you know, when you’re told you can’t do something, you wanna do it more. Definitely, like when I’m told I can’t walk, I’m like, watch me. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna prove you wrong. Yeah. So I think there was something in that and she said, I literally just can’t, I can’t hinge my prosthe. I have no control of my prosthetics, um, without momentum. And I was like, oh, okay. And I was like, oh, that’s such a shame. And I said, oh look, I’m physically recovered now. Um, how about here’s an idea for every $1 that’s pledged towards limbs for life through a GoFundMe page. I’ll complete one burpee and like, I don’t know that many people. And I was like, I’ll raise like a hundred bucks. It’d be great. Like it’s just the tiniest way I can give back and um, it ended up raising, like, it’s a really funny story, like the Guinness World Record got involved, um, and we ended up raising like $300,000. Oh, that is next level, which is yeah. A hell of a lot of burpees. Um, and

Andy
Can I, can I just go back? So how long has that been, since like you were in a wheel, like you got told you were gonna walk again? Not do sports again. You got, you almost lost your leg. And you know, you’ve recovered. So how long after that?

Kath
Would’ve been about eight months, I reckon.

Andy
So about eight, eight months, you turned it all around to a point where you could do a burpee.

Kath
Well, one burpee is not 300,000. Like I never, I never anticipated You getting that big. So, so the story goes like, I set this GoFundMe page up. And I was like, I shared a story similar to what I’ve just shared with you, in this podcast. I just said, look, here’s the reason I’m doing it. And so all these people started donating and friends were sharing it with their friends, people like I did. I was like, how? They don’t even know me. And they’re donating. This is amazing. Like I was getting really big and my best friend called me halfway through, sat it and did it, and then she went, or I just Googled it. The world record for the most amount of burpees in a day is 10,000. I said, oh, cool. Like, why are you telling me that? And she said, oh, have you, have you checked the account, like the GoFundMe page? She said, no. Why? She said, Kath, there’s over $10,000 in it. And I was like, oh, you kidding? So. Then the next day, yeah, the Guinness World Record, his name was Will. And it was like, I was just at work and my phone sort of flashed up and it just had like, you know, I guess it’s like the country.

Andy
Yeah. Yeah.

Kath
Why would someone in the UK be calling me? So I’m like, picked up my phone and I go, good day, it’s Kath. And Hi, is this Kath Koschel? I said, yeah, it is. Hi. This is Will from the Guinness World Record, we heard you’re attempting a world record for the most amount of burpees in a day. Um, is that correct? And I said, no, well, that’s not correct. It’s like, And he’s like, look, we, are you the person that’s done this GoFundMe page? I said, I am. Yeah, it’s an amazing story. And I said, oh, thanks mate. And he said, look, um, they normally charge like four grand to send like an officiator.

Ange 
Oh wow.

Kath
There, and he’s like, oh, would you be up for that? I said, absolutely not. Like, I’m not gonna take four grand from the donations. Like from a really small charity and all that. So I said, nah, bugger it. And then he said, look, we love it. We’ll just show up and be free. We’ll come free anyway. Ah, nice. I was like, oh, that’s epic. So, um, so yeah, next me know.

Ange 
Oh, so now you’re held even more accountable to doing 10,000.

Kath
I know. Well, I ended up doing 14. So on the night before, I’m due to due this challenge, it’s at $14,650. But I was like, these people call me resilient and maybe I am, I don’t know. How do you define resilience? It’s a, can be a contentious issue, but there’s one thing

Andy
That’s you. I’m telling you it’s you.

Kath
Well, it’s one thing. One thing I can tell you about myself is like, there’s never a, like, I can’t in me, so, I was like, do you know what? If I have to go till I drop, it’s gonna happen. And if it takes me 24 hours, I’ll get these burpees done.

Ange 
Did you work backwards to go, how many? How many can I do in a 24 hour period to go incapable of doing 14,000 burpees?

Kath
No, I had no idea. Like, I’d done some tests and I was obviously training and stuff like that, but, um, everyone always asks like, how did you count them and all that? Because one of

Ange 
Hell did a lot of the burpees count.

Kath
Well, yeah. So I have 14,650 that I had before and then Michael Clark, the Australian cricket’s captain, tweeted the link. It went viral in India. Oh God. And there was $300,000 in this account. And I was like, oh, I can’t do that much. Like, no, like that. That’s, impossible, I, I’d kill myself doing it. Like, no way. So I, we, use social media very cleverly. I said, look, I’m gonna go for 14,650. That’s what I said I’d do last night. And that’s what we had in our head. So that’s what I’m going for. Who else can show up and help me with the other 300,000? And so then dad’s ring.

Ange 
Just a small question.

Kath
I know, I know. Well, so then dad’s ringing me going, well mate, how are you gonna count the burpees? Who’s gotta count the burpees? And I was like, my dad, I don’t know. And he’s like, so he came up with this concept where he divided the number of 300,000 by 10. And then he, He’d come up with that many tokens. He cut ’em all up and did all that kind of stuff. And then we had that many, so what’s that? What, whatever the number is. Yeah. He had that many tokens in one bucket. So obviously when I was doing the world record, I was a bit more on the side and had the guy there counting properly and he’s like on no rep and I’m like ****.

Andy
That was a wrap.

Kath
Um, but yeah, the other sort of 300,000 were just done in lots of 10. So everyone would just like, literally add like lines of four or five people and they’d just go down and do 10 and then they’d get up, take a token from the full bucket and put it in the empty bucket. And then when you had no tokens left, they were done. Mine was a bit more rigid.

Ange 
Simple system, that one.

Kath
Very simple system. Yeah. You don’t have to overcomplicate stuff with, with guys around. Oh man. But yeah, it was epic.

Andy
Tell us.

Kath
Oh, like, you know, I spoke about the debut, like the euphoria. I felt like it was hard to top that, but I reckon this one did. Probably because it was the first time in my life that I’d really committed myself to something bigger than myself, like where I was like, I’m doing this for someone. I don’t really know that well, but I know that they’ve helped me so much. But then to see that many people, so 300 people showed up. I didn’t know 200 of them. So they just saw this thing on social media and there’s like, oh, woman gone for a world record shit. I can rock out. Like I can, I can help with a couple of burpees. Like, and it just showed me that like the world’s a pretty good place. Hey?

Andy
Yeah, exactly.

Kath
It is like so often we get caught up in the grind of work or stress or our to-do lists. Um, and then when we turn on the media, we see so much hardship and, and tragedy that’s going on in the world and it sometimes beats us down a little bit. And this was really, for me, a great reminder that the world is a really good place. And sometimes in the most unlikely of places we can find hope.

Ange 
And humans can actually be good people if you give them a chance.

Kath
I know, like, like would you rock up like a, like, do you know what I mean? Like,

Andy
I love the story. I reckon my cuppa was in the local area within half an hour. I was like, oh, let’s go do a couple, you know, like, it’s incredible. So did you get the world record? What happened there?

Kath
Nah, I got the world record. It’s since been broken,

Andy
Round of applause. That is absolutely huge. So four. How many in a day?

Kath
14,650. I did. Yeah.

Andy
Oh Jesus.

Ange 
Did you have to sit on the couch for about a week after that?

Kath
No. Do you know funny stuff? Well, not funny. Um, my brother actually, he was there pumping him out. I’m really close with one of my brothers and he’s there pumping ’em out with me, got really fit, all that kind of stuff. And he ended up in the hospital that night. He went so hard.

Ange 
Oh my gosh.

Kath
So, like we finished it up, we packed it all up cuz we were at the fire station, like local to mom and dad’s and my oldest brothers, uh, like he’s a, like all a retained fiery, like a non volunteer, like part-time fiery. So we did it there. So it was a big family event and we packed up the fire station, all that, got home and then granted my brother’s just like, I’m not feeling that well, eh, and oh, you’ll be right. Like my triceps were about to fall off. Like it’s, it’s all good. I did 14,000 of them and Yeah, and he ended up, I don’t, it was just a, I don’t know. It was just an exhausting kind of thing, so I was like, I felt terrible. So I was like, I’m coming to the hospital with you.

Ange 
I know. I was gonna say, yeah, it’s almost hard for him to go, oh my god, Kath’s been through so much, but I’m the one that ended up in hospital after something like that.

Kath
Yeah, yeah. No, but he, he went, he went so hard. He’s in the video. I’ve got a great video of it. He’s in the video of it, just sweaty and bruised.

Ange 
It’s dedicated.

Kath
Yeah. It’s dedicated.

Andy
So you went from doing burpees and breaking a world record and the next thing you are a triathlete. So you decided you were gonna be a triathlete and,

Ange 
Uh, not anything you can’t do?

Kath
Well, this one was, it wasn’t really my brain child. I remember just having a chat to my doctor. I, I can’t, I’m disabled technically, so I can’t feel below my left knee. On my left leg. And, um, I, and it means I can’t naturally lift up my toes, which is called dorsiflexion. And you kind of need to be able to do that as a cricket, I was a right hand batter. And that’s your front foot. And that’s a movement is quite vital to that role. And so I knew Cricket was out. Because that’s just a disability. There’s nothing I could do about it. And so I remember having a chat to my doctors and they said, um, well it’s not sport, it’s just cricket. So why don’t you pick something else? And I said, well what do you reckon is a good idea? And they said, well, you really good on a bike cuz you did a lot of that and you rehab and I was quite a good swimmer as a kid growing up as well. So if you had in a run you could be a really good triathlete, why don’t you give that a go? And, and that’s how I got into it. It, it was just, again, it’s like anything that you’re wanting to start, you, you just gotta start. It’s the most important thing. So signed up for a tester, loved it, and then just got into the, the beast of the sport. So it’s a brutal sport.

Andy
It’s a brutal sport. And then all of a sudden the unthinkable happened. You are involved in a devastating motor vehicle accident, and you responded in a way that most people wouldn’t have, and that was with kindness. So run through what happened there.

Kath
Yeah, so I’m training for an Ironman in January of 2016, and it was supposed to be in Port Macquarie in May, and I got to the right hand turn lane, fell a thought on my body and ended up getting cleaned up by a drunk driver. So this was really serious. I broke my back in four places.

Andy
Again.

Kath
Yeah. Again, I shattered my left hip, broke my right wrist. I dislocated my neck. Uh, I woke up two weeks later to lose it. Yeah, I was paralyzed. I told that I’d never walk again for the second time in my life. So it’s just unheard of. Yeah, so it was, it was pretty, I mean, we, it was huge. It was a huge accident. Uh, as parents, we sort of spoke about how hard that would be, for me, I didn’t have to look too far for perspective at the end of my bed as my parents, my mom and dad, and do you know what? It was genuinely throughout all of these things that I’ve spoken about today, This was the first time that I remember looking at him going, they just look so broken. And I thought, shit, I’m, I’m actually the lucky one here cuz I’m not them having to watch this. Like I’m just having to endure it. And I think, I genuinely believe it would be much harder to do what they did like, because I guess he’s so helpless. I couldn’t, I’m an auntie. I’m not a mum, but I am an aunt. I’d love to be a mum one day. If I had watched one of my nephews or my niece go through that, it would honestly break me.

Ange 
Heart breaking.

Kath
I wouldn’t be able to do it. I don’t reckon and be okay. I just don’t think I would. And so that’s the first time I’d ever put myself in their shoes to go. Just keep doing it for them this time, like, not that 30 people on the list. I was like, breathing. Just breathe. Because like I just didn’t wanna put ’em through more. I was like, just hang in there, hang in there, hang in there. And so, you know, again, you just gotta start. I had to breathe, breathe, breathe, and then got stronger every day. But God, it was brutal. I was fighting off infection for six weeks. I just kept going through all this stuff. Monitors going off, all that kind of stuff on the wards for six weeks.

Andy
Okay. I’m gonna ask a really interesting question. Because you’d been, this is because you’d been through it before. Did that make it easier because you knew what to expect? Or harder because you knew what to expect?

Kath
So much harder, not for the reason that you’d think. Um, harder because I remember being in hospital and um, you, when you go through all that kind of as catastrophic injuries as this was, I was, you know, interventions and all that kind of stuff, and I remember coming out of it just feeling so groggy from the meds and you’re not really yourself and all that kind of stuff, but it was just like there was an overwhelm. My story was quite public by this point. Oh my God. They just exposed like this big story in my life to date. Four days later, I get cleaned up with this car and they’re like, oh my God, she’s back in hospital like this woman, blah, blah, blah. It was like the media and all these people involved, and I just, there was an overwhelming amount of flowers and gifts and, and, which is lovely. Right? But I remember like, you know, the tray table, the swivel kind table in the hospital was like a stack of cards that everyone had been sending in. And it must have been like, from the same news agent or something, it was like four that had the same, like, it was exactly the same card. And on it, it had something like, you might’ve heard this phrase, like, God gives his toughest battles to his strongest soldiers.

Ange 
Oh yeah.

Andy
Wow.

Kath
I was like, I’m so fucking gonna hate this. Like, I, why me? I was like, like, I’m sick of being the bloody soldier. Fuck this. Like, so I was, I was, I was getting real shitty at stuff like that. And I was like, oh, this is how I know it started to impact me. But everyone kept saying to me, may it’s fine. You’ve done it once, just do it again. And I was like, yeah, but I have done it once and it’s bloody hard like, and the first time you’re doing it, you’re kind of flailing in the dark cuz you dunno what to expect.

Ange 
Like the naive, it actually works for you. Right?

Kath
It works.

Ange 
So you are not naive to what you’re about to go through.

Kath
I wasn’t, I was like, I have done it once before. I remember exactly how hard it is and I’m so exhausted from my life to date. So I dunno if I’ve got it in me again and what if I fail this time, is everyone gonna then go, oh, she, she couldn’t do it. Like, do you know what I mean? It was a bit more expectation, which I think made it mentally a bit harder than the first time.

Andy
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I can imagine.

Ange 
Yeah, for sure.

Kath
Yeah.

Andy
How did you know, how did you respond after that? Because obviously, you know, it’s tough and what was the recovery and where did you go next?

Kath
Yeah, so it was about 12 weeks in the hospital in total. Rehab for six months, learn how to walk again. And then I ended up in court. This is the story everyone loves. So end up in court. Um, it’s a three day process and this dude had never said sorry to me and it really pissed me off.

Andy
With the car, right?

Kath
Yeah. I like it, cause I was a man and drunk and all that kind of stuff. And if that was me, I’d just be beside myself that I’d hurt someone and he just never apologized. And that, that really bothered me for some reason. And I don’t know why. Maybe it’s just something I just needed to let go, but it did. And the three day process, the first day the guy doesn’t even show up. Well, that’s just completely so disrespectful. Like I’ve had to take a day off work and be here, and the second day it’s pretty serious. We learn all about it, all that kind of stuff. And the third day, everything happens and it’s really emotional scenes and the sky breaks it down in tears. And as much as it bothered me that this guy had never said sorry to me, I had to remind myself in going, even in, I’d never been into court, like I’d, I’d never been in trouble or that kind of stuff. I didn’t know what to expect as a judge, all that kind of stuff. And I get there and all this stuff happens, really emotional scenes. And I remember just thinking this guy didn’t intentionally hurt you. Like he has made the wrong decisions. And drinking and all that. Uh, I make millions of mistakes every day. And mine haven’t been as big as his and impacted someone’s life. And, and I think. God for that. Like, I’m not religious, but I do thank God for that. So that’s the thing, I had to keep reminding myself. And when he was so upset, I just kept, I just felt bloody empathy for him. And I was like, so I remember going up to him. I still could hardly walk. I was still like ginger on my feet and he was on the floor, like that’s how dramatic this was. And I remember putting my hand on his shoulder and I said, mate, are you okay? And he said, no, I’m not. And I said, I can see that. And I just said to him, how are you getting home today? He said, I dunno, I can’t afford a taxi. Uh, I obviously can’t drive. I’ve lost my license, et cetera. Um, and dad was there and supported me. He was a cop for 40 years. I love my day. He’s the toughest man I know. But he’s, he’s also a teddy bear underneath. He’s just a really good guy. And, I could see him off the back of my shoulder, shaking his head going, don’t do it.

Ange 
Totally.

Kath
Yeah. And the guy just goes, um, you know, I said, we’ll give you a lift. And the guy just goes, I, I don’t think it’s a very good idea. And, and dad said, Kath, it’s definitely not a very good idea. But we did. It was like a 15 minute trip and I’m glad that we did it. Um, but dad’s driving, he’s in the front and I’m in the back and you could have heard a pin drop.

Ange 
Like very awkward.

Kath
We were so silent.

Andy
Dad was in striking range. I don’t think I should have heard myself back.

Kath
I know. Yeah. So yeah, we get, get to this guy’s house and um, he goes to get out and he never once said, thanks for the ride. He still hasn’t said sorry, anything like that. And he’s about to shut the door. And then he looks at me in the back and he just goes, why did you just do that? And before I could even think I just said, cuz your actions don’t control mine. So whatever I do in life, regardless of my background circumstances, I wanna stay true to who I am and I would’ve done that for anyone else on the planet. So I’m not gonna let this experience change me. So he gets out, I jump in the front and then I sit next to my dad and I look at him cuz we just sat there and I thought he would’ve been driving by this point, and I look at my old man, toughest man I’ve ever known, and he’s just got these tears running down his face. And it honestly broke me to see him like that, like to see my, my, the toughest. I’d never seen my dad cry. And I remember just thinking, this is that, like he was 40 years in the cops. The last 10 of him are at Kings Cross, so he’s seen some stuff.

Ange 
Hardcore.

Kath
Yeah. And I was like, oh my God, this is the thing that’s, and, and it’s fine for him to cry. Like I think a lot of people need to do it more, especially. Servicemen and, and men in general and all that kind of stuff. But I remember just going, dad, like, what’s wrong? And he said, mate, before I say this, I need you to know your mom And I we’re so proud to be your parents. We are, we genuinely mean that. But my God, it’s hard to be your parents sometimes. Oh my goodness. And, and how is it? I’ve just given the man who Kath, I literally had to watch you crawl. Like I, I watched you crawl through life for the last six months and this is the man responsible for that. I’ve just given my left home. Talk me through it. And I, I’ll never forget, it was a really beautiful moment with a tinge of humor, mark, cuz that’s what my family do. But I said, oh dad, like at a young age you actually gave me this quote. It was on a poster that I hung above my bed and it read that the world is changed by your example, not by your opinion. I said, do you remember this? And he said, yeah, I do. It’s still in your old bedroom. And I said, okay, great. I said, do you mind me asking why did you give me that? Cuz you know, I’m one of four. He could have given it to any one of us kids. And he, he just cursed to me, oh mate, I hate to break it to you. I’m pretty sure I got it for free at work. I was like, well wait to ruin a moment. I said, dad, I’m, I lift my life by that. Yeah. It means something to me. And uh, you know, there’s a special bond that daughters have with both parents, but also with their dads as well. And I always idolized him like he was someone I looked up to. I still do. He is like hero of mine. And I said, dad, I’m just sick of it. You turn on the tv, you watch the news, you go on social media, go into schools, you listen to kids, and we as human beings, we see hate. Like it could be bullying in a school yard or in a corporate environment. It could be war, terrorism, domestic violence, gun violence. Where is it? We see all this manmade adversity. Like this stuff doesn’t need to exist. Wait, I look at it like life’s bloody hard. Yeah. Like, agreed. You break your back, people pass away. Like, um, you get cancer diagnosis, all this kind of stuff. Why do we make it so much harder on each other? Like, I don’t do that, that just makes no sense to me. And so I said, I’m sick of being a part of a world that responds to hate with hate. So you call me something, I’m gonna call you something back. You hit me, I’m gonna hit you back. That’s not how I see the world. And I think with that quote in mind, I just said, this is why I’m doing this dad. Like I’m even if I make a point to no one else but myself. This is why I’m doing this. And so with that, we, he, felt comfortable. But then, yeah, in the most bold, well, the boldest thing I’ve ever done, I just. I guess I started to feel like I was sliding down a little bit. Like my mental health had started to decline. And again, again, adversity was there. But I think, like I said before, sometimes through the grit of suffering, we start to learn about ourselves. And what makes us tick and, and that can be a really big gift. And in that way I’m, I’m quite grateful for my adversity because right now I’m the most self-aware and I accept myself the most I ever have just for being me, right? And so I knew what made me tick, it was things like gratitude, humor, perspective, but also of course kindness. And so I just went on social media again and I said, look, um, my dad nearly killed me for this too. I said, I’m on the 12th of August, so I’m gonna leave my home in nothing but the clothes on my back. So no cash, credit card, food, or water. And I can’t accept help from family or friends. So I can survive only from the kindness of strangers. And I didn’t know how long this would last. It could be a couple of hours a week, who knew? But I ended up reaching new stations all around the world and I ended up traveling for two months to every state in Australia. So I traveled by boat, plane, train, car, uh, fed the homeless. The homeless fed me. Um, celebrities got involved. Um, And I learned so much again about my, I reckon I learned more in that two month period than I have the rest of my life combined.

Andy
Right.

Ange 
And learned so much about others, just people in general.

Kath
A hundred percent. So I reckon there’s 99, it was 99 people that ended up helping me very directly, like either by putting me up in their house or driving me from A to B or doing something. And every single person, every 99 of those people. Have a story that will break your heart. So I learned so much about adversity and suffering, not through my own experiences, but through others sharing theirs and what worked for them, and, and I learned that adversity is such a relative experience. So anything that any one of us is going through can impact us in a multitude of different ways. That sometimes we think we’re well enough to cope with and sometimes we’re just not. So, I learned so much about others myself, but also the concept of kindness, the building blocks to kindness. It’s not just warm and fluffy for me, it’s the ultimate strength to be able to give someone kindness. You know, when you’re at your lowest or when you’re at your highest, it doesn’t really matter. It’s always a strength in my opinion. So that journey taught me. Yeah. A tremendous amount.

Andy
And if someone feels like they’re in a bit of a hole, you know, what are maybe three questions they could ask themselves?

Kath
Yeah. Whenever I’m sharing my story and stuff like that, I always sort of bring in three concepts and the the last three questions I ask anyone. First is, have you laughed today?

Andy
Love it.

Kath
So especially when we’re in a rut, right? Laughter doesn’t, and, and being in a rut doesn’t seem to go hand in hand, but I think it can. So tell someone a joke. Get someone to tell you a joke. Go on to Instagram and find a meme, or go on YouTube and watch a video, or, I don’t know, find a way. I’ve got three older brothers, so I get some, I get sent some stuff like I can imagine, uh, it’s not always appropriate, whatever it is that. Whatever it is that makes you laugh though, but make sure it’s that belly laugh. Like that really gets you going. Um, cuz it actually releases chemicals. So there’s a reason that when we laugh, we feel good and all that kind of stuff. It releases chemicals in our body and challenges become immediately more accessible. So that’s the first question. Second, what are you grateful for? So science says if we write down three things, we’re grateful for every single day for 21 days in a row, it actually rewires our brain. So our resilience increases, our well being increases and our stress decreases. But also we look for other opportunities to be grateful. So suddenly you’re scanning the environment. Not for danger or stress or anything like that. You’re scanning your environment for, I can be grateful for that. This happened to me today. I had a great conversation. Whatever it is. I always like to say someone rather than something. And just a reminder, don’t always listen to this podcast from start to finish. Who’s that person? Call ’em. Tell ’em why you love him. Tell them that you’re grateful to have him in your life. And, and the third thing I think, and probably most important is, what’s the kindest thing that you’ve done today? So preface, um, especially for listeners of, of a podcast like this. Being business owners, being as busy as you are, being parents, being whoever you are, kindness to self is just as important as it is to others. So, um, what is it you need right now to pat a dog? Tell someone you love ’em. Get your favorite coffee. Call someone, whatever it is. Um, do that first. You can’t feel from an empty cup. Um, and I like that analogy. You know, whenever you get onto a plane, I’ve been on a lot of them last month, but every single time I got online, the first thing I heard was a safety message. So in case of an emergency, an oxygen mask will fall down from the ceiling, put yours on first before helping others, and that’s vitally important, especially as business owners. So kindness to self and then kindness to others. I think the, the greatest privilege that we have as human beings, Is really identifying and understanding this notion that every interaction that we have with another person, be it a customer, be it someone in your family, be it a friend, be it the stranger that you walk past has an incredible opportunity to lift someone up through, compliment, encouraging words, smiling at them, whatever it is. Or it can have a completely detrimental impact by calling someone, shouting at ’em, doing whatever it is. So please choose wisely and, and choose kindly as well.

Andy
And I know that those three tips, um, you said to our members, and quite a few of them are still doing that today. And they’re still, they’re loving it, so

Kath
They talk about it a lot.

Andy
Yeah, it’s great. So, Kath, what’s next for you? I mean, obviously your life is unbelievable and you’ve been through so much. So where, and I know you’ve just been traveling around the world for a couple of months, so what is next for you?

Kath
Um, I mean, I’ve been asked this question a lot. I’ve just written a book, so that’s out um, it’s best selling, which is great. Um, it’ll get released into the US. I’ve been having a lot of meetings over there. Speaking a lot at the moment. Um, what’s next for me? I’m, I mean, there’s many goals and all that kind of stuff, but really it’s about balance for me. So I’m striving for just a life that I can live. That one I’m proud of, that’s full of purpose, but also that fills me up and, and gives me the chill time that I need as well. So I mean, it’s sort of a period at the moment where I’m really trying to find out what that looks like. Uh, and I think I’ve nearly nailed it, which is incredible, but that’s what I’m striving for, which is a completely boring answer considering the rest of my life.

Andy
But, well, yeah. Well listen. You’re an incredible person. You’ve been through so much and, and um, even just having a chat with you earlier today and, and how busy you are and traveling the world and doing whatever, and I thought, what, what are you looking forward to? And like just chilling out and just having a bit of a break. And, and I love that and you don’t have to have these big audacious goals, but it sounds like you’ve got some big audacious goals and you’re gonna be doing a bit more traveling to come and this book of being a best seller already. Well, congratulations. That is absolutely amazing.

Kath
Yeah. Thanks mate.

Ange 
Yeah, it’s been an absolute privilege to have you here with us today, and the fact that you’ve even made the effort to come here into our studio when you are that busy. We really appreciate that.

Kath
No, it’s, it’s incredible. No, I loved, I loved the, the talk that we got to do, uh, back in breezy, the other month and all that kind of stuff, and as I said, I’ve got three older brothers, they’re all tradies. So this is something that’s like, uh, yeah, I think it’s a very undervalued skill and profession in the community. So anything that I can do in this way, um, I’m all in. So, and, Ange, you’re both legends. Thanks mate.

Ange 
So are you.

Andy
Yeah, Kath, you’re a superstar and, and we just wanna thank you so much for coming and hanging out, as Ange said, and I know the listeners, you know, would absolutely love your story. You know, the ups and downs and swings of roundabouts and it’s even hard to fathom what you’ve been through, to be honest. But if you wanna find out more about Kath’s new book and the Kindness Factory, there are gonna be some, uh, links in the show notes. So there’s a hell of a lot to think about. And until we’re back in your ears next week, we will catch you then.

Ange 
See you.

Andy
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