COACHING SERIES: Help! … We Feel Like Imposters (Damien & Ashlea LUMOS Electrical & Solar)

Andy
That’s right, Ange. Normally we love sharing stories of big wins and interesting journeys of our tradies who have implemented what we actually teach in Lifestyle Tradie. But today we decided to bring in some newbies who need some coaching advice. They’re a great couple who’ve only started with us around five months ago. And although I have to say, they’ve already had some seriously impressive results from what they’ve already implemented so far, thanks to what they’ve learned. And I just can’t wait to hear more. 

 Ange
Well, this is a great opportunity for you to listen to get an insight as to what it might be like to be on the receiving end of Andy’s trade specific advice. So you can learn something too. All right, Andy, be nice.  

Andy
What, Ange? You know, and everyone else knows I’m always nice, but sometimes tradies do need a reality check and a good old kick up the arse. And I’m always that person to give it, don’t I? But seriously, no need to be scared guys. We’re one big happy family here. 

 Ange
Okay. This is going to be different. We’ve never done this before and I am really excited. If you’re interested to hear a coaching style call today, then you’re in for a treat. Let’s get this show on the road. 

Andy
You’re listening to The Tradie Show. This is the podcast for trade business and contracting bosses like you, who want to lead with confidence, make more profit and create a better lifestyle. 

 Ange
We’re your hosts, Andy and Angela Smith, husband & wife team and co-founders of Lifestyle Tradie. Are you ready to have some fun? 

Andy
Hell yeah! 

Imagine this. No more late nights quoting and invoicing. No more second guessing your business decisions. No more missing out on hanging with your mates and feeling like a slave to your business. If you want to create more freedom, make bigger profits, learn how to utilise AI in your business, build a dream team behind you, and finally get off the tools, come and see us at Lifestyle Tradie on Tour.  We’re coming to a capital city near you for a day of no bullshit. Reserve your free ticket at lifestyletradie.com.au to learn how to work smarter, not harder. But don’t just take our word for it. 

Member’s Testimony
Definitely join Lifestyle Tradie. The amount of support and knowledge which is within the program is valuable. 

We knew that we needed to know numbers, but we didn’t know which numbers to look at. And learning the right numbers to be watching and the right numbers to be looking at was able to double and triple our business, really within a year, two years, I’m a hundred percent sold on that. It’s worth it. Just do it.

Andy
So the lucky duo selected for today’s show is husband and wife team, Damien and Ashlea from Lumos Electrical and Solar in Wollongong. They’re a young couple in their twenties and thirties and have been running their business for the past four years. Damien, Ashlea, thank you so much for coming to the show, guys. It’s great to have you here. 

Damien
Thanks for having us guys. Good to be here.

 Ange
Well, thanks so much for driving from Wollongong to us here in the studio. It’s such a treat to have you both here. 

Ashlea
Thanks for having us. 

Andy
Okay. So to start it off and to set the scene a bit, can you tell us a little bit about your business, what you do, how long you’ve been operating and what does your team look like these days?

Damien
Yep. So I started the business in 2019. I was doing it on the side. I was working full time for a big company in Sydney, and I was hating my life. So I decided that I should do something for myself. So I started working on the side of an afternoon on weekends, and then I just got to the point where I was too busy that I needed to, you know, Make a decision of what I wanted to do. And yeah, took it on full time in 2020. 

Andy
And why, when you said you were hating your life, like what, what was it working for someone else that you just didn’t seem to like?

Damien
I worked for, like I said, a big company and we’re just a number. We had some guys that I’m still friends with to this day, but just in general, it wasn’t a nice atmosphere to work in. I hated traveling from Wollongong up to Sydney every day. Yeah, it was just taking a toll on my life, so I decided I needed to make a change. 

Andy
Yeah, we hear that story so many times and people are just like, you know what, I’ve just had a gut full of this, I’ve got to do something different.

Damien
So now we operate mainly in Wollongong. Most of our work is local work, which is great. We do a lot of residential work just for regular mums and dads. We do solar and electrical for, for residential properties, a little bit of commercial here and there. We have a small team, so it’s myself, a tradesman and a third year apprentice, and then Ashlea does office work as well for us. So yeah, being close to home is a huge advantage for work life balance. 

Andy
And how long have you been working with the business, Ashlea, and how many days a week? Are you full time? What are you gonna do? 

Ashlea
I only do one day a week at this stage. So after I went back from maternity leave, October 2022, I believe. 

Andy
Perfect. Perfect. 

 Ange
So tell me guys, what was it that actually made you join Lifestyle Tradie in the first place? 

Damien
So as the business was growing from the outside, it looked really good. I was busy. People kept asking me, how’s work? Are you busy? I said, yeah, yeah, I’m really busy, really busy. But that was the issue. I was too behind the scenes. I was, yeah, I was too busy. I was letting quotes get away from me. Uh, I wasn’t answering the phone sometimes cause I had too much on. I know I wanted to grow the team and grow the business. So I kind of needed that outside help cause I knew it wasn’t sustainable what I was doing the late nights and yeah, it was starting to stress me out a lot. So I started looking around for some help and business coaching and yeah, came across you guys and it was a no brainer, really. 

Andy
So let me ask you that because there’s a lot of people out there and obviously I talk with a lot of tradies over the years, but Most trade business owners, especially when they’re younger, or maybe even if they’ve been around for a while, they sort of get caught up into believing their own bullsh*t. They’re getting a lot of outside noise, people thinking they’re a superstar. They believe they’re a superstar. And, although they know there’s cracks in the business that should be fixed, they sort of don’t come to that conclusion. I need help. They’re more going down the path of, I’ll just keep struggling. Why were you different from everyone else? What was the thing that really made you go, Oh my God, I need help. And I need it now. 

Damien
Well, we have a young son. He was only a baby when kind of, we were kicking off. And then, like I said, I was sitting on the computer late most nights, just doing quotes, invoicing all the stuff that you need to do to stay on top of everything. And I was all right. I was pretty on top of most things, but again, I just knew it wasn’t sustainable. I was losing out on a lot of time with him when he was young. And people kept saying to me, you know, you don’t get this time back when your kids are young. So I knew I needed help somewhere to structure my business and get better with time management and stuff. So yeah. 

Andy
Did you feel like you had to let a bit of your ego go or were you just one of those guys? I’m happy to, because some people just don’t want to ask for help. Right. Were you one of those guys like, no, no, I just need it or what was that sort of shift, that mindset shift of going, you know, I know it was, you had a young baby and a young family and all this kind of stuff, but was there something internally that made you just switch?

Damien
Again, I guess it just comes down to sustainability. Like I knew I couldn’t keep doing that forever. And there is that general consensus that you just do it and you work it out and you work long hours. And that’s just the joys of running a business. And I’d seen like older guys, or especially in my old company, they used to say, you know, you’re not going to last, it’s too hard or that kind of stuff. And to a point, I wanted to prove them wrong in a way. 

 Ange
Totally.

Damien
But again, I didn’t want to continue the way I was going. So, they don’t teach you how to run a business in TAFE or anything like that. So, yeah, I just needed some outside perspective of the business. 

 Ange
So, Ashlea, did you notice that too? Did you notice what was happening to Damien and the fact that he was working late nights and he wasn’t with you?

Ashlea
It was really frustrating. Yeah, it was frustrating because we had a newborn and I was obviously on maternity leave, but I still kind of needed that help. And he was very, very helpful, but I could see that he was just exhausted. Like he was mentally drained and I can’t live like this forever. And we’re all about getting help when you need help. So I think you never really struggled with asking for help. You’re pretty good like that. 

Andy
Yeah. And that mental drain, like I know tradies are just used to wearing all the hats. We’re just used to when the chips are down, the majority of it is used to working harder, not smarter. So could you actually see a real difference in Damien? Like, could you actually see like a mental strain. Like what a lot of people don’t realize is when you’re burning the candle at both ends, you’re actually not as good in so many things in personal life and in business. 

Ashlea
Definitely. And I also think as well, like his profit margin wasn’t really changing. So that was also a huge one. It kind of felt like he wasn’t really going anywhere. So he’s putting in all this work and he wasn’t really, yeah. 

 Ange
Even though he was ridiculously busy. 

Ashlea
Yeah. He wasn’t losing money, but he wasn’t, yeah, he wasn’t really gaining as much as what we should have been. 

Damien
That was, yeah, that was a big turning point. I think it must be the end of the financial year. And we looked at the profit and loss for it in zero. And I think I made, yeah, it was a pretty low profit for the amount of money that I’d turned over in the hours that I was definitely working. So again, that was a point where I thought, yeah, I definitely need to change something.

Andy
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So I know you guys have come with some questions for us today. So what’s the first thing you feel that you need some help with at the moment?

Damien
I still find myself working past business hours. So just wondering how do I change this moving forward? 

Andy
Yeah, it’s a great question. A lot of people talk about it. Time management is massive for tradies. You know, there’s so many tradies out there that are really just running around like a chicken with its head cut off and they’re just bouncing from one fire to the next fire and they just can’t get the structure of the business right. You guys hear us talk about it all the time. I know when you first started, you didn’t have a job management system, but having the right job management system and everything in there is really important. Having the right flow of a job. So from the moment the phone call, you answer the phone call the right way, you put it in the job management system the right way, right through to quoting and invoicing is a big thing. We have this time maximizer that’s a part of our program and it really gets you to understand where your time is going. What a lot of people don’t realize is you’re still wasting a lot of time talking to your mates when you’re on the road, talking to your mum and dad, you know, going past the surf and checking it out and, and all that kind of little things that people don’t think too much about, but it’s a lot easier in this  world these days to go, well, I’m on site and we need some materials instead of being a bit more organized, it’s easy just to jump in the truck, go down the road, get a meat pie, buy some, get some materials and come back. And it makes it an easy part of your day, but you’re wasting so much time. So there’s a whole process around it, but I will say, you know, you hear us say it all the time, having the right structures in the business, you guys are still new with the job management system. I would assume you haven’t got a setup to that level where you’ve got all your quotes and all your invoices and they’re all pre-templated. You know, a lot of that stuff we’ve got to do on the job. Any trade business that I know out there that’s struggling and doing massive hours, they always do all of their invoicing, all of their quotes, potentially at home and doing it late at night. Are you still doing that? Or are you doing some of it on the spot? 

Ashlea
A mixture. 

Damien
Yeah, we’re doing a bit of a mixture. Like you said, we definitely haven’t set up the job management system to where it probably needs to be. Yeah. I know that it takes time to kind of get templates in place so that Josh, Isaac, and my two workers can do stuff on the spot while on site.

Ashlea
They are very good at it so far. 

Damien
Yeah, they are good at it. And we are getting better as a team of learning how to use it and how to utilize it properly. But there is definitely still some happening at home.

 Ange
So Damien, is your time caught up than doing quotes at night time for the solar work? Is that kind of what’s happening?

Ashlea
Mainly, the solar. 

Damien
Yeah. Solar quotes are the biggest time waster. Oh, not waste, but they take up most of the time. So yeah, quotes. 

Andy
And how long does it take you to do a solar quote?

Damien
Depends on the size of the job, but most people want different options. So you’re doing three different designs for one house. And it’s frustrating because when they don’t go ahead, you spend all that time. So yeah, it can take up to, you know, half an hour to an hour, depending on how intricate the system is. So. Yeah. 

Andy
And do you have anything to weed out people that want it done now to having people that are really tire kickers and only want it done in the next five years? Do you have anything to weed them out on the phone? 

Damien
Probably not, to be honest. 

Andy
Okay. So when you’re on site and they’re giving these options, are those three options pretty much the same on most residential houses? 

Damien
Yeah. So we generally recommend bigger systems. So we normally mix between a 10 and 13 kilowatt system. So they’re probably the two main ones. Obviously it depends on a person’s house and a person’s budget, but people are pretty, they keep their cards close to their chest. So no one wants to tell you the budget. So it’s hard to kind of quote depending on what people are expecting. 

Andy
Yeah. And that’s where you need to be working more with A and B customers. And you need to go to their house already knowing what you’re going to do. You know, I know some people do solar quotes by satellite. And you’ve got an understanding, but if you had one, two, and three, and it was virtually the same thing, and all you need to do is change a few words, you could actually hand that to them in 10 minutes, I would assume with the price.

Damien
Yeah. Yeah, that’s true.

Andy
So just by having that set up the right way, you’ve just saved yourself a half an hour and you’ve done it on the job. And as everyone knows, I talk about all the time, there’s no better time to ask for the sale than when you’re standing in front of them. And if they say, Oh, listen, I’m going to talk to my husband tonight. It’s like, okay, I’ll give you a ring at eight o’clock tomorrow morning and let us know if you want to go ahead or not. But that’s where you’re going to get a lot more bang for your buck and your time is precious. So how do we make those quotes be pretty much automated for those types of clients? I know commercial is going to be different from residential, but have something set up for say residential. You could even have some type of information booklet. We’ve talked about those before where you’ve got the three options and you go, here’s your option one, two or three, here’s the prices and all the information is already there for them in a booklet. They can see it’s glossy. You get them to try and make a decision on the spot. If they need to think about it, then you ring them the next day. But those next two weeks are critical because you need them to say yes, as soon as they can. The longer they leave it, the more likely they’re not going to go ahead. Not saying they never will, but the more likely they’re not going to go ahead.

Damien
I definitely find that if the quote drags on, I almost know that they’re not going to go ahead and even follow up. If you don’t hear back from them or yeah, they don’t even bother letting you know, if they’ve gone elsewhere, that definitely is the factor. 

Andy
And to be honest, I get really angry about it because residential people ask us to go out to their house. I mean, we as a plumbing company would charge for doing a quote like that. Very minimal, only 50 bucks. Like there’s no money in it. But it just gets rid of those tie kickers that are looking for three quotes, and they’re just going to take the best price. Dr. Drip was never the cheapest plumber. So if we’re going to get other people quoting against us, we weren’t going to win that unless they were getting us for service. So, you know, there’s some things that you need to do that I know will be massive for you and change that time. But as I mentioned, any trade business that says to me, they’re working late at night, they’re working massive hours. Majority of the reason is because their actual structure of the business is not set up the right way. And until that’s done the right way with the right systems, you then can make sure that you do it the same way every time. And then your two workers do it the same way every time. And there’s no reason why potentially they couldn’t start quoting if you had it set up the right way as well. 

 Ange
I will add one extra thing to that. I agree with everything you’ve just said. I think we often talk about energy levels. Some people would claim that they’re really good and better focused in the morning, or perhaps they’re better focused at night time. So my sentence to you would be, you know, when you name what that is, say it’s a morning person, that’s what Andy and I are, I’d be saying if you needed to be on site by nine o’clock, then make sure you’re at your desk at least a couple of days a week at six o’clock, because you’ll just smash out some really quality work at that time of day. Okay, so what’s your next question? 

Ashlea
Um, we’re really struggling to think of ways to integrate me more into the business. So I only do one day at the moment and then I do two days a week at my previous job. But yeah, the goal would be for me to help Damien more and take the pressure off him. But it’s a bit hard when he does all the quoting and the invoicing.

Andy
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Don’t we hear this a million times. So my question to you is, would you work full time? 

Ashlea
Yes. 

Andy
Oh, so that’s what you want to get towards. 

Ashlea
The goal is for me, it’s,  I don’t know if I want to say this in the podcast, but I only want to work. 

Damien
She wanted to retire by 30.  

Ashlea
Because we’ve got the two year old, it makes it hard, so we’ve only got to care for him three days a week. So at the moment it would just be three days that I’d want to do. 

Andy
Okay. Three days a week. So we have that question come up quite often, and normally what it comes down to is the tradie And, um, I say the male tradie, but it could be a female tradie as well as business owners. They’re so stuck in their ways and they’re control freaks because they’ve run the business by themselves.

 Ange
That’s it. That’s just a personal hit at you there. 

Andy
From, from the very start. So it’s very hard to let go. Now, most tradies would be screaming for their partner or wife to come and join the business. But when they do come and join, they don’t have enough time to really help them. Yeah. So they’re lost. So then you come in and I’m assuming that’s how you’re feeling. I will. How can I help you? I’m doing diamonds. I. Well, I don’t know. You can’t do my quoting and you can’t do my invoicing. And that’s the thing that’s really holding me up, right? So we hear it a million times. We understand how it is, but there’s a hell of a lot of things that you can do. And the first thing is maybe taking on the job management system a little bit more. We have a hell of a lot of training, as you guys know, within our program, that wives come in and just consume that at a rapid rate. So they’re not actually asking their partner too much at the very start. And that’s all we’d like the call converter, the ServiceM8 set up, making sure that the job flow is exactly the same every way, keeping an eye on numbers, looking at marketing, social media, you know, but let me ask you, what are your strengths and weaknesses?

Ashlea
I think that I’m really good at admin. I’ve worked in the legal industry for 14 years. So as a legal assistant, I think that my, yeah, assisting is fantastic. 

Andy
Yes. And any weaknesses?

Ashlea
Um, I would say that I’m a bit of a perfectionist. That’s probably my weakness, a bit OCD. 

Andy
And you probably have to be in the industry that you work in, right? And that’s okay, but it’s about trying to find that happy medium where there’s no doubt Damien needs a million things That he wants help with, obviously invoices and quotes at the start are going to be a little bit tougher. But as I said, the information booklet, I mean, I’d go through your past a hundred quotes and I’d break them into 10 segments. And if you did a hundred quotes, and you broke them into 10 segments, you’ll find that there’s going to be certain piles that are a lot higher than the others. And then those ones that have the biggest piles, then do a template for that and have that template within ServiceM8, so it’s already set up. And really Damien then potentially, I’m not saying you want to do it this way. I’d rather Damien do it on site, but he could just send you a WhatsApp message or Voxer message about the job. And because you, the template and everything’s already set, you just need to fill the gaps and then send it off. 

Ashlea
Yeah. That’s a good idea. 

Andy
So there’s a lot of things you can do. A lot of people will think, I don’t know. And then that’s because you don’t know what you don’t know. And a lot of the times the tradie, the business owner control freak doesn’t know how to release that. But there’s a hell of a lot of stuff that we’ll work on as we move forward with that.

 Ange
I think when you, you’re already helping from a bookkeeping perspective behind the scenes and now having worked with Lifestyle Tradie, I know you already understood that finance was really important, but now we can really fine tune the very specific metrics for a trade business that you should be watching to ensure that we build this basic dashboard to start before we move it to advanced. So that way, between the two of you, you’re really on the pulse to ensure that You know, your books are actually getting closed off by the 10th of the month so that you can pretty much push a button out of zero and look at your reporting and build out this basic dashboard so that you’ve got absolute clarity around how much money you’re making all the time.

Ashlea
That would be helpful. 

Andy
Yes, that’s where you get confidence, right, is when you can actually see without a shadow of a doubt, it’s actual proof when you stare at those numbers and go, they can’t lie. As long as I’ve put it in the right way, as long as my P&L has been built the right way from a chart of accounts, like a lot of the charts of accounts aren’t built right. So as long as it’s perfect, you know that every decision you can make with confidence now because you know it’s true. 

Ashlea
That’s true. That’s a good idea. 

Andy
So any other questions you guys have? 

Damien
Uh, yeah. So we’re four years in now and mindset’s a big issue for me. I suffer from imposter syndrome a lot of the time. There’s a lot of comparison, especially with other businesses in the area. And even though I know we do really great work and we’re probably one of the better sparkies in the area, sometimes I catch myself doubting the business and myself, and I really compare our business with other businesses in the area, especially ones that are more established. This comes down to what you guys taught us about the hourly rate. It was pretty scary when we did the hourly rate. I was severely undercharging at the start. So increasing that increases the imposter syndrome in a way. Yeah, I worry what other companies and other clients think of us and think that we’re too expensive. So yeah, I just need some help around that area. 

Andy
Yeah, imposter syndrome. I hear a lot of people talk about it and you shouldn’t. I think we’ve got to remember we’re professionals. We’re like lawyers. We’re like any other professional out there. We’ve done our hard yards. We’ve been to TAFE for three years. We’ve passed all our exams. We’ve done what we’ve needed to do to be a tradie. So we are the professionals. People are getting us in because they don’t know what needs to be done. So we’ve got to be very clear on that. Mindset is everything in business. Mindset is everything in life, and you’re going to understand what you need to charge and what you need to charge to make the money that you need. And a lot of people do come to us and they are undercharging. The thing to remember here is we never tell you guys what you need to charge. We get you to do an hourly rate calculator that tells you what in your life and where you want to be, what you need to charge. Now, for some people, it is a little bit of a shock, but most people are never charging enough and that’s why they’re in that downward spiral of potentially never surviving in business. So the reason that you guys are feeling like that is you may be a little bit more expensive than Joe Bloggs down the road, but if you dive into some of those businesses, they’re not healthy. And they’re in problems and they have issues and they can’t offer great customer service. They can’t pay good tradies the money they need to offer an incredible service. So like any business owner, you’ve got to make money to be good in business. You definitely do. And if you make the right amount of money, you do a great job, then customers want that. You don’t have to be so expensive that you’re blowing people out of the water. And I know you’re not. But you charge a fair price for the incredible service that you offer. And that whole mindset is something that every tradies got to get on top of. They’re used to working with an old boss or they’re used to working with Billy Bumcrack down the road, whatever it is, but life is expensive. Everything is expensive. Interest rates, materials, petrol, you name it, it’s expensive. We all need to know how to charge. And any tradie out there now that’s not charging what they’re worth. They’re the silly ones. So we need to make sure you know what you’re worth and you’re going to be super, super confident around that. And if customers want to go with Billy Bumcrack down the road, good luck. And we all hear those horror stories. 

Ashlea
They end up contacting you later to fix the job. 

Andy
Exactly. Exactly. 

 Ange
Interesting. So what I also see play out when you talk about imposter syndrome is, You may find yourself in a situation that now you have put your prices up, that when you’re in that moment of selling that to a customer, you’ve been really confident, you know exactly what you’re talking about, you speak with clarity about solar or whatever, electrical, whatever it is you’re specifically talking about. And in that moment, when you start talking about price, your demeanor changes, your eyes probably dip and you probably, your head starts moving. So your body language changes and I, as your customer, can actually read that. And in that moment, I start going, Oh, maybe he’s at like, why is he even doing that? It’s all subconscious. I wouldn’t as a customer even say that. And this is something that you have to be really careful about to ensure that your behavior, your confidence, because you know your trade, you need to ensure that you and your team hold that behavior. You hold that eye contact is really important. So that I believe you the whole way through so that I’m ultimately going to say yes to you anyway because I believe in you. So if you feel uncomfortable about that, about what you’re saying to a customer, I would highly recommend you start role playing this with Ashlea at home so that you get confident in how you’re delivering so that Ashlea can go, I just noticed you weren’t holding your arm and now all of a sudden you’re holding your arm or your eyes just dipped when you said that because you are worth it. You are an incredible tradie. And you have to back yourself. So I will notice if you don’t, you got to practice. 

Ashlea
That’s good advice. 

Damien
Yeah, it is. And I guess that leads into our next question. Like, how do we portray the value? Like we’ve got the Google reviews behind us. Like I said, we do really great work. Our customers are generally pretty happy with us all the time. So how do we portray that value without coming across as kind of arrogant and too cocky? 

Andy
Yeah, it’s interesting. A lot of people talk about that and the thing is, You need to be very confident, like everyone loves confidence. Uh, the big thing that we always talk with all the tradies we help is, you know, when we talk pricing and when we set things up, we do it in such a way that it’s super, super professional and we never ever push the client into the sale. We don’t make it salesy. We don’t make it that sort of scenario because I don’t think anyone likes being sold to. I don’t know a person out there that loves being sold to, right? So the whole thing is you need to come across with confidence and that really starts from the moment your phone call comes in to the way your boys turn up to the way the trucks turn up. To the way you talk to the customer from the very start. This is all, you know, you’ve got testimonials, your websites, like your whole branding is a big thing. So I never think you’re being cocky or arrogant and you should never be cocky or arrogant, but you need to be saying, well, we’ve been doing this in the local area. This is what we do. These are the products we use. We’ve got the best team and we’re, we’re the best. And, and I’d never have a problem with saying that as long as you truly believe you are. 

Ashlea
I think we are. 

Andy
Yeah, and definitely. And that’s what you’ve got to have that belief. 

Damien
Yeah. I think we are too. And like, like I said before, our team’s really good. Like Josh and Isaac do great work. They’re great with the customers. Yeah. I set a high expectation of them and they meet it every time. So yeah, our branding is on point. Everything’s pretty high standard. So yeah, there probably shouldn’t be an issue around that. 

Andy
I don’t think so. And I think being cocky or arrogant, and I know you’re not, I mean, I know the type of person you are, right? So I don’t even think you are rocking up like that. So that’s really a mindset thing as well. So you’ve really got to work on that. 

 Ange
I would reverse this and start putting yourself in your customer’s shoes because regardless of whether they’re coming to you because of solar or electrical, meaning they’re doing something low transaction value versus high transaction value, because they’ve got a mobile device stuck in their pocket, it’s really easy for me to go and have a look at your website or even any of your socials. I’m looking at your Instagram or your Facebook, wherever it is that I tend to hunt. I generally go to your website first, to be honest, especially if someone has recommended you, however I have found you in the first place. And this location, your socials and your website has to scream how professional you are on other people’s behalf instead of you actually verbally having to say that to a customer. And like you said, you’ve got great testimonials that are already there, five star reviews, but these are before and after photos and talking about solar. So it’s really clear that you have the knowledge that I’m buying your knowledge, to be honest, that’s what’s going to be really important. So these stories do really need to play out in your socials because I’m going to find out a lot about you before I probably even make contact.

Damien
Yeah. That makes sense. 

Andy
And I suppose we talk about being professional and being that business that everyone wants to work with. And we talk about these credibility packs. Who are you? What have you done? What awards have you won? You know, all that kind of stuff is huge. You don’t need to sell yourself because everything that you have is really a selling piece. But it’s not verbally selling. So you know, we know that in life, everyone is selling themselves every second of the day, that the moment you get up, the clothes you wear, what you do, like everything is about sales. So you don’t have to verbally say anything that seems cocky or arrogant, but you need to show them who you are and, and not come across as desperate. That’s another one. 

 Ange
Well, when you’re, especially from a solar perspective, when the transaction value is very high. As your customer, it is probably likely that I’m going to get other quotes. And this is the beauty of that credibility pack because I will bank my bottom dollar that your competitors are not handing over anything that sets them apart. It literally is a piece of paper with a value on it. And this is where you can stand head and shoulders above everybody. 

Andy
So Ashlea, do you have another question for us? 

Ashlea
Yes. Another thing we were wondering is about automating the business. Yes. We kind of, yeah, don’t want to lose that human connection, but then also Damien’s losing a lot of time when he’s following up directly rather than automating it.

Damien
Yeah. I feel like if I directly send my client a link to our Google page, rather than relying on say our job management system to send a link 24 hours later, it’s much more likely that they’ll do it. Kind of on the spot or as soon as I received that link, rather than getting an email. Cause I know, I know myself, if I get a hotel review 24 hours later, I just delete and move on with my life. So, yeah. 

 Ange
Totally. 

Andy
Well, I think the moral of the story is, everyone’s busy. Everyone’s got no time. So most times someone will send me a link and they go, Oh, listen, I’ve got a link. Can you fill in a Google review? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No dramas. They send the link and I never do it. So, um, there’s no doubt about it. Human interaction. Now, the thing is, as tradies, we have a lot of human interaction. You’re on the job. So you just need to make sure when you’re at the job that you actually say to the customer, Hey, we’d love it if you could give us a review, make sure they’re happy. And no doubt they will be because at the end of the job, you go through it all. You show them they’re on a high yet great, it’s finished. Then you ask them to do a review while you’re there. Most reviews don’t take that long. I know there’s a lot of people out there sending emails and text messages about reviews and, and some of them are getting great responses, but I also believe that if you want to get reviews fast, there’s no better time to answer that review when your team member or yourself is standing in front of that customer. And I think you’re right in regards to that human connection, they feel a bit obligated to do an amazing review while you’re standing there. And then they show it to you and you go, Oh my God, that’s amazing.

 Ange
I actually think customers are happy to help you. They just don’t know how to help. So when you actually ask a very pointed question, I would imagine they would actually say yes. 

Ashlea
Definitely. They’re good for recommendations. A lot of the time in Facebook groups, too. 

 Ange
Yeah. Humans generally want to help other humans.

Damien
Yeah. Unless you run, I actually said this before, unless you run a business, you don’t realize how helpful a review is. Yes. So if you’re not asking, then I suppose you’re not getting. 

Andy
Yeah, I think there’s more and more people realizing how powerful a review is, a negative review, how powerful and, and listen, you know, not to dive in that, but there’s some people I’m hearing are getting attacked by people that they haven’t done work for and she’s a can damage a business. It’s tough times. 

Damien
So although I work in the business, it’s obviously a big part of my life. I don’t really want it to become my identity. I want to be able to switch off from the business. I hate that constantly my mind’s on work and you know, sometimes I want to watch a footy on a Sunday or I’ll have a glass of wine with dinner on Saturday night, not thinking about what the boys are going to be doing on Monday. So, um, yeah, I just don’t want it to consume my whole life. 

Andy
Yeah. And that’s why we’re called Lifestyle Tradie because we’re trying to help with that, but, um, it has got to do with the way your business is structured and set up and we’ve touched on that, but you’re going to find ways that you can. Switch off as well and, and make sure that there’s certain times of the day you don’t think about business and you, and you just, you, you’re adamant that bang, you’re not going to think about work in any way, shape or form. We need to be doing this, but like anything in life, when you’re growing a business from the beginning, when you’re trying to be an athlete, if you’re trying to be smarter at school, there’s a lot of work that goes into it. And the people that are a hundred percent dedicated to the cause are the ones that are getting faster results. Right. So. I really believe there’s a time in your business where you do go all in. You’re going to find out if that’s you. Not everyone wants that. I know I did two years, seven days straight and I just went hell for leather. I’d done a lot of travel beforehand and that set me up for life because I put so much time and effort in and I was addicted to business and what I was doing and I was a fanatic. And I think in anything in life, when you have that love and you’re fanatical, it doesn’t feel like work as much. So you’ve got to find that fine line between putting in the hard yards. And not thinking about work too much. Now with Ange and I, all the stuff that I don’t really enjoy at work, like your invoicing and quoting, all that kind of stuff, that was all done at work. So I do that in the work hours. I would leave all the fun stuff like working on your business to be doing that at night that you are enjoying and you can see light at the end of the tunnel of how it’s going to change your life. So I understand it, life is busy, business is busy and your phone runs off the hook and it’s tough, but you’re going to find those ways where you just go, that’s it. We don’t talk about work after a certain time of night, like that was what Ange and I did. We never talked after say six o’clock at night, unless it was something fun, but Ange would never ask me those hard hitting questions. So that worked really well for us. And I found a way of switching off and some people go to gym and once they’ve done gym and they come home, it’s forgotten, everything’s forgotten. But you need to be so organized during the day so you don’t have to think about it at night because everything’s already done for the next day. 

 Ange
That’s exactly where I was about to go because Damien’s talking about how do I actually switch off because my brain is thinking about business all the time, even though I’m trying to enjoy my Saturday night with Ashlea with a glass of wine. I agree. This is a phase of your life that you’ve come to Lifestyle Tradie at the exact right time whilst you’re young and you’re energetic and you’re passionate and we can help set up these systems and structure to ensure that you have this. We aim for excellence through the flow of one single job so that it’s repetitive and that the rest of your team can actually do exactly what it is you want done whilst you’re actually dealing with a customer. Both whilst you’re on site and then what happens inside the office. And the beauty about getting this perfect about reaching this level of excellence is we can get to a point where we automate what we can and we set up systems so that you know exactly what you’re doing so that the business model is right. And then you will create space in your mind because you know it can actually work without you and you’re not stressing then about what’s going to happen on Monday and where the boys have to be. You can actually take a breath. I mean, we got to a point where he was literally only working in the business two hours a week. Now, that doesn’t happen overnight, but it will happen when you know what exactly to do inside your trade business. You’re on the right train, and it’s going to work 100%.  We’ve done this a thousand times over, and that’s what I love for you is because you’re young and energetic, and we’re going to get this perfect.

Damien
I think I’m a bit of a perfectionist as well. So like if someone messages me on say a Saturday night or a Sunday morning, my brain thinks, Oh, I need to reply to this person right now. Otherwise they’re not going to be happy. I might lose the sale. So again, that’s just, definitely I need to work on that. And I suppose that’s where automation comes in that they get that response instantly. I don’t need to reply personally on a Saturday night. Um, well, Ashlea’s looking at me going, what the hell are you doing on your phone? 

Ashlea
Get off your phone. 

 Ange
So is that what happens, Ashlea? He gets a message from a client and then he replies on a Saturday night?

Ashlea
He’ll be sitting there and then we’ll be playing with our son and I’m like, come on, like, get off your phone. This is family time.

Damien
It’s just one message. 

 Ange
And do you know what? I think it’s really important that You create boundaries. These customers, they have huge expectations and huge demands, and they actually expect that when they message you, that you have nothing better to do than to reply to them at 10 o’clock on a Saturday night. So these boundaries you, you’ve got to really stick to. I know it’s really tricky because I understand you don’t want to lose a customer, but I mean, it means you never switch off and you don’t want that in your life. 

Damien
Or just equate to burnout, I guess. 

 Ange
100%. 

Andy
Ashlea? 

Ashlea
Although work is pretty consistent for Damien, he still finds himself chasing a lot of work. We’re aware that there always will be some sort of element of that, but how do we get to a point where customers end up coming to us rather than us chasing them all the time? 

Andy
Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, everyone would love it if you never needed to spend any money on marketing and you never needed to chase customers. I mean, we’d all be just happy days and we’d be living the dream, right? So marketing’s always about that. Always chasing new customers. I think the big thing for me is you need to be chasing the right customers. Too many people are working with C and D customers and they give you headaches and problems. And then if they do come back, that is giving you more headaches and problems. So you need to make sure you’re looking at A and B customers. You need to be marketing constantly and you need to be making sure there’s new leads coming in. So whatever that is for you, there’s low cost marketing ideas. And then obviously there’s high cost marketing ideas like maybe SEO and AdWords and so forth. But I’m a real fan of making sure you’ve got new leads always coming in. And if you are busy, you’re letting go of some of those D clients and C clients. And, and that’s the way to go. Now there’s some new CRM systems out on the market. I know we’ve, we’ve talked about one we’re working with at the moment that’s working well, and if you can get them set up the right way, it’s all automated. So I think the big thing is, that’s going to make a huge difference to all of our members and they’re already saying that because everything’s automated from the very beginning. So a lot of people spend megabucks on marketing, but they don’t have the front end set up right. They don’t have the back end set up right and they lose a lot of customers in that way. So, I’d love to be able to say to you that you’ll sit back one day and you’ll never have to worry about work, but you’re always going to have to worry about work. It’s just about finding those right customers and keeping the flow right. 

 Ange
Well, that’s the point. It’s about keeping the flow right. You guys are based in Wollongong, if you were to put a pin geographically about where your base is and say, I ideally don’t want to go anywhere outside of X radius. You’re not just in solar, you’re in electrical. So depending on the market segments that you work with, these customers are actually always going to need you again. So the point here is, yes, attracting marketing is important. You’re always going to have to find new clients, new customers, A and B grade customers, but we need to ensure that we maintain these touch points with your entire database. There is so much value in the database that you have with every single customer that you’ve worked with over the last four years. So we set up these really good retention marketing strategies to encourage repeat clients coming back. This is where we know in Dr. Drip that we increased the average dollar sale three times just by getting back inside that house and you are no different. Electrical is actually even easier because I need to ensure that I’m looking after the house from a maintenance perspective because it’s now for safety. I don’t want someone to burn their house down or whatever. So this retention marketing is one thing that trade business owners in general tend to forget. They’re very focused on attract, beginning of the funnel. And they forget how to fix these conversion points inside the flow of a job when you get a quote, how do you make that perfect? But what happens at the very end? What are we doing for retention? We need to lean on your database. And that way you won’t necessarily have to be so hungry all the time spending lots of money on attractive marketing because your database is already leaning on you and they’re already chosen you as their, you know, local electrical contact.

Andy
Yeah. And I just want to touch on that. You know, you guys have come in today to the studio and asked these questions, which has been amazing. But the other thing I want you to be very aware of was Rome wasn’t built in a day. You know, it’s, I know it’s a very old saying that makes me sound old,  but Rome wasn’t built in a day. And so many people come in that are perfectionists and they want it to happen now. It takes time. You guys have made huge improvements within your business. Like I think we’re talking, you came in at 5 percent net profit. Now you’re sitting at 30 percent net profit. You guys have made huge, you’re hitting big turnovers that you never thought possible, like in five months, you guys have done so much, you know, so never underestimate what you’ve done. The biggest challenge that all us tradies have is we’re always looking for the end game, but we’re not actually reflecting how fricking good we’ve been. You’ve had a newborn baby, you’ve doubled the size of your business. You’ve gone from 5 percent net profit to 30 percent net profit, shits happening.  And if you look at it from a mindset point of view, you should be thinking, yeah, we are killing it. Yes. I know that when you step into the Lifestyle Tradie world, there’s a lot of bigger businesses and a lot of bigger people, but you guys are the perfect fit, smaller businesses that come in like you, you can grow to whatever level you need to, but we’ve got to get that structure and the foundations right. So I think there’s a lot of great advice you guys have been given today and hopefully you guys have really enjoyed that. 

Ashlea
Yeah, absolutely. 

Damien
Thanks for having us. 

Andy
So now we’re going to go into three rapid fire questions. We do this with all of our podcasts and we’d love to hear what you guys have to say. I’m going to start with you, Damien. So what’s one strategy you use to start your day right? 

Damien
One thing I’ve done recently is not check my phone before a certain time. I try not to look at it before I leave the house. So there’s no point in looking at murders and stuff on the news before I leave the house. It doesn’t set the day up nicely. So yeah, it’s been a big one for me. 

Andy
It’s funny because a lot of tradies, the first thing they do is lean over, pick up their phone, or go have a look and see what messages come through. And sometimes you’re right. It doesn’t set your day up the right way.

 Ange
So second question, Ashlea, what’s something that made you smile recently?

Ashlea
We just booked a two week holiday to Bali in July. Yeah. So that will be our first holiday where you will be stepping away from the business completely, really. Just trusting the boys. 

Damien
First overseas trip with our two and a half year old. So it’s going to be interesting. 

Andy
And how are you feeling? Do you feel like the boys have got this covered?

Damien
Uh, I think by July, I think we’ll be pretty good. I think there’s a few back end things I need to do to get them to a point, but yeah, they’re, they’re competent. So. 

 Ange
Do you know what I love about that though? This is the best way to test a team. You can do everything you can to ensure that they’re set up perfectly. And you obviously do do that. But you actually have to go away for at least seven days and actually let them break stuff, right? It’s the best test. You work out how many times they call you, what they’re calling you about and why they’re calling you so that you can come home and go, did anything break? Have I lost customers? Like, what do I actually need to fix? And surprise, surprise, you might come back and go, Oh my God, we’ve actually still been making profit and I didn’t take a phone call and this was amazing. I could do this again. 

Ashlea
We should go on holiday.  

Andy
So guys, I’m going to ask you this. What is the best piece of advice that you’ve ever received? And you know, I’d love to hear answers from both of you on this one. 

Damien
So mine actually came when I was finishing at my old company. There was an old tradie. And the last thing he said to me was don’t listen to d**kheads. Um, we had a, I Um, I’ve got a former who told me I was going to basically fail and he’ll see me in a year’s time when my business failed. And yeah, four years in, I listened to that other tradie, he said, don’t listen to d**kheads and here we are.  

Andy
That is amazing. I love that. What about you, Ashlea? 

Ashlea
Mine’s a bit boring compared to that, but mine is, it’s cool to be kind. 

Andy
It is cool to be kind. And I think kindness goes a long way in business, communications, and relationships. All of that kind of stuff. So I just want a, 

 Ange
Simple, such a simple message. 

Ashlea
I say it to our two and a half year olds all the time. 

Damien
He doesn’t always listen. 

Andy
Don’t worry. They still don’t listen at 14 and 17, but that’s another thing. But guys, I just want to say a big, massive thank you for joining us on The Tradie Show today. Damien & Ashley, you are absolute superstars. You are doing so much in your business. Just to remember how far you’ve come. Yes, there’s still a long way to go, but how far you’ve come. We’ve loved every minute having you guys here today. 

 Ange
Well, we also love having you a part of the Lifestyle Tradie community. It’s great to have your questions in there and your shares about what’s going on inside your business. We, of course, wish you every continued success in your business and we can’t wait to see you guys again at our next member event. 

Ashlea
Thank you. We really appreciate you guys. 

Damien
Thanks so much for having us. And it’s been a, it’s been a short time, but the five months we’ve had here has been unreal. So yeah, 

Ashlea
Life changing for the business, I would say. 

Damien
Absolutely. 

Andy
And you guys did it at a really cool time when, with the newborn  and all that kind of stuff. Tough for you guys. So it’s great you’ve come full circle with this.

Ashlea
And as well, the Facebook group that you guys have is probably my favorite part. 

Damien
Yeah. The community is great. I put up a question last night and just got responses from everyone. And just so helpful. Everyone, especially in the industry down in Wollongong, especially like everyone keeps their cards close to their chest. No other companies want to talk to you or whatever, everything’s secretive. So it’s good to have a like minded group that you can lean on. 

Andy
Yeah. And that’s one of the things Ange and I are most proud of with Lifestyle Tradie is our community. We talk about it all the time, but we just have some unbelievable people, some unbelievable businesses, but everyone’s willing to share. So you don’t have to be lonely in business anymore. And I think that’s the beauty of that community, having a good community around you. 

Ashlea
Definitely. 

 Ange
Well, thanks again. It’s been great that you actually came up and actually joined us in the studio. So this has been a real treat for us too. 

Andy
It has. But I’m going to do something we’ve never done before. Is that all right? Are you guys all into this? I’m going to do a three, two, one, and we’re all going to do hell yeah at the same time. Three, two, one. 

All
Hell yeah!  

 Ange
Want to know more about how Lifestyle Tradie can help you create more time, scale your profit and get your life back? Then come and meet us at Lifestyle Tradie on Tour. So many of our members have success stories and we would love to kickstart that journey for you. To reserve your free ticket right now, head to lifestyletradie.com.au and we look forward to seeing you in the room.

Member’s Testimony
Don’t wait. These guys are very honest and open. They share so much information personally, as well as business. It’s a holistic approach to life, not just trying to run your plumbing business. 

Lifestyle Tradie has a huge sense of community. Just a great group of people just helping everyone out and they help you out. Just hanging out after the events is always fun as well. Some great speakers come along and definitely always, always learning stuff from every event we go to.

There’s been so many times where I’ve learned on the community’s advice, where we’ve had certain issues that we’ve been able to bring up in our, you know, Facebook group. You get plenty of answers that you can actually action. 

Don’t hesitate. Every year that you put it off is just an extra year that you’re losing. If you need help, get it. 

Andy
Subscribe to The Tradie Show wherever you get your favourite podcasts. Rate and write us a review or for more information about Lifestyle Tradie, head to lifestyletradie.com.au.